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The vast amount of smokers who quit smoking eventually return to the newsagents to pay lots of money for some tobacco. However there is a second category of peo

The vast amount of smokers who quit smoking eventually return to the newsagents to pay lots of money for some tobacco. However there is a second category of people that have never smoked, and are totally unlikely to do so. Vegetarian/vegan dieting is a bit like this. There are lots of people that try going vegan and then they only last so long at it, probably boring everyone to death with their 'meat is murder' views. Meanwhile, in India and plenty of other places, are those that actually are vegetarian, having grown up that way and not indoctrinated at a young age into the meat eating cult. For these people the logic of suddenly starting to eat meat makes as much sense as taking up smoking, after an impressionable teenage this does not happen. Disclosure: yes I am vegetarian and I own a leather belt!!!

umeshunni 10y ago
> in India and plenty of other places, are those that actually are vegetarian, having grown up that way and not indoctrinated at a young age into the meat eating cult On the other hand, they are indoctrinated at a young age to not eat meat (and to look down upon those that do).
- danans 10y ago
  I would also add that the majority of Indians are not vegetarian, especially in the south and east: http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/06/14/how-india-eats_n_10434374.html http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/06/14/how-india-eats_n_10434...
- calvinbhai 10y ago
  Not necessarily. There's so much variety in india wrt nutritious and tasty vegetarian and vegan foods, indoctrinitaion is tougher. The only non Indian cuisines that have some veggie options are probably Ethiopian and Mediterranean. But I haven't seen many varieties of those in US. Meat eating is expensive (comparatively) and hence it's an another great barrier for many people to try. I'm so pro veggie food even after consuming dairy products, chicken,eggs and occasional beef and pork. That's primarily because I grew up in India and I believe veggie food in India is way better than any other non meat cuisine.
  - armandososa 10y ago
    This. Eating indian food is the only time I don't miss meat. There's delicious (authentic) meat-less Mexican food too, but it is so freaking high on carbs that I just can't.
hvs 10y ago
While I generally agree with the gist of your argument, "meat eating cult" seems a bit hyperbolic.
- metamet 10y ago
  And... wrong. Historically, and presently, humans are primary omnivorous. We evolved eating meat. Moving away from it is a new thing--so to call your species' history a cult is very... odd.
  - heurist 10y ago
    Not to the extent we do today. Meat was hard to come by for most of human history.
    - xienze 10y ago
      "Hard to come by" in the sense that you had to hunt for your food, yes. But to use that reasoning to imply that meat eating in humans throughout history was uncommon and to deny its role in human development is laughable.
      - heurist 10y ago
        I disagree about the implication. Even when raising cattle you wouldn't slaughter one unless you had to, either to avoid waste or starvation. Few would deny that humans have eaten meat but it was definitely much less common than it is in the US today. For instance, much of America's fascination with beef traces back to the loss of the bison in the mid to late 1800s. Entrepreneurs found great opportunity in the open plains once bison were gone and made subsequent use of it, heavily imprinting beef into our culture... So yes, we've eaten meat for a long time but not to the extent we do now. Now is an abberation, and one that comes at great cost.
  - teach 10y ago
    Humans may have evolved to eat meat but nowhere near the staggering quantities of low-quality meat that most Americans now consume. I once read it estimated that the average Jew in first-century Palestine would have probably eaten less than a pound of beef per year.
cname 10y ago
> ...probably boring everyone to death with their 'meat is murder' views. It seems to me that this type of attitude is a big part of why people don't stick with being vegetarian or vegan. There's a lot of direct and indirect pressure to conform and people freely make fun of vegetarians (especially vegans), turning their lives into demoralizing memes. If only we could "live and let live". Then maybe people would feel free to make (and stick with) the choices that make sense to them.
xienze 10y ago
> Meanwhile, in India and plenty of other places, are those that actually are vegetarian, having grown up that way and not indoctrinated at a young age into the meat eating cult. Isn't vegetarianism in India at least originally a... religious thing?
- calvinbhai 10y ago
  That's the popular opinion. But I think it's more to do with India being blessed with enough sunshine water and land to sustain non meat cuisines 365 days a year.
  - rlpb 10y ago
    > ...to sustain non meat cuisines... I am under the impression that anywhere you can raise animals, you can grow vegetables for fewer resources. There isn't anywhere that can sustain raising animals for slaughter but cannot be vegetarian instead. Consider it this way: the animals you're raising for slaughter still need something to eat. Work your way down the food chain and you have to hit plants at some point.

umeshunni 10y ago

> in India and plenty of other places, are those that actually are vegetarian, having grown up that way and not indoctrinated at a young age into the meat eating cult On the other hand, they are indoctrinated at a young age to not eat meat (and to look down upon those that do).

danans 10y ago
I would also add that the majority of Indians are not vegetarian, especially in the south and east: http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/06/14/how-india-eats_n_10434374.html http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/06/14/how-india-eats_n_10434...
calvinbhai 10y ago
Not necessarily. There's so much variety in india wrt nutritious and tasty vegetarian and vegan foods, indoctrinitaion is tougher. The only non Indian cuisines that have some veggie options are probably Ethiopian and Mediterranean. But I haven't seen many varieties of those in US. Meat eating is expensive (comparatively) and hence it's an another great barrier for many people to try. I'm so pro veggie food even after consuming dairy products, chicken,eggs and occasional beef and pork. That's primarily because I grew up in India and I believe veggie food in India is way better than any other non meat cuisine.
- armandososa 10y ago
  This. Eating indian food is the only time I don't miss meat. There's delicious (authentic) meat-less Mexican food too, but it is so freaking high on carbs that I just can't.

hvs 10y ago

While I generally agree with the gist of your argument, "meat eating cult" seems a bit hyperbolic.

metamet 10y ago
And... wrong. Historically, and presently, humans are primary omnivorous. We evolved eating meat. Moving away from it is a new thing--so to call your species' history a cult is very... odd.
- heurist 10y ago
  Not to the extent we do today. Meat was hard to come by for most of human history.
  - xienze 10y ago
    "Hard to come by" in the sense that you had to hunt for your food, yes. But to use that reasoning to imply that meat eating in humans throughout history was uncommon and to deny its role in human development is laughable.
    - heurist 10y ago
      I disagree about the implication. Even when raising cattle you wouldn't slaughter one unless you had to, either to avoid waste or starvation. Few would deny that humans have eaten meat but it was definitely much less common than it is in the US today. For instance, much of America's fascination with beef traces back to the loss of the bison in the mid to late 1800s. Entrepreneurs found great opportunity in the open plains once bison were gone and made subsequent use of it, heavily imprinting beef into our culture... So yes, we've eaten meat for a long time but not to the extent we do now. Now is an abberation, and one that comes at great cost.
- teach 10y ago
  Humans may have evolved to eat meat but nowhere near the staggering quantities of low-quality meat that most Americans now consume. I once read it estimated that the average Jew in first-century Palestine would have probably eaten less than a pound of beef per year.

cname 10y ago

> ...probably boring everyone to death with their 'meat is murder' views. It seems to me that this type of attitude is a big part of why people don't stick with being vegetarian or vegan. There's a lot of direct and indirect pressure to conform and people freely make fun of vegetarians (especially vegans), turning their lives into demoralizing memes. If only we could "live and let live". Then maybe people would feel free to make (and stick with) the choices that make sense to them.

xienze 10y ago

> Meanwhile, in India and plenty of other places, are those that actually are vegetarian, having grown up that way and not indoctrinated at a young age into the meat eating cult. Isn't vegetarianism in India at least originally a... religious thing?

calvinbhai 10y ago
That's the popular opinion. But I think it's more to do with India being blessed with enough sunshine water and land to sustain non meat cuisines 365 days a year.
- rlpb 10y ago
  > ...to sustain non meat cuisines... I am under the impression that anywhere you can raise animals, you can grow vegetables for fewer resources. There isn't anywhere that can sustain raising animals for slaughter but cannot be vegetarian instead. Consider it this way: the animals you're raising for slaughter still need something to eat. Work your way down the food chain and you have to hit plants at some point.