7 ms·

Vegetarians and vegans, unlike catholics, don't have a comunity of people who will call them up and ask them why they haven't been attending service. Being vege

Vegetarians and vegans, unlike catholics, don't have a comunity of people who will call them up and ask them why they haven't been attending service. Being vegetarian and vegan is also much more involved than christianity. You can be a serial killer and still be a christian, but you cannot be a vegan if you eat meat once. We also lack a confessional culture in which sins can be forgiven and stray sheep can come back to the fold. That's something we really need. Too many people slip up once and feal that they are carnivores again.

wyager 10y ago
It's unfortunate that you're being downvoted; that's a very interesting social analysis. I hadn't thought about confession operating as a relief valve for deviations from difficult social rules.
- nthcolumn 10y ago
  beware lions claiming to be veggie...
bogle 10y ago
The article implied you were more likely to remain a veggie if you lived with other veggies. They also cited not wishing to stand out as a reason for lapsing. I don't think, however, it would help someone remain veggie for long if it was being imposed on them in any way. The important points raised that may help a veggie stay the course would be to educate them on the environmental and moral implications of eating meat. Freedom of choice then rather than the imposition of a culture.
metamet 10y ago
> Too many people slip up once and feal that they are carnivores again. Well, aren't they? If you have a moral conviction for abstaining from meat, shouldn't that be enough to keep you coming back to your straight and narrow? Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. I imagine that trying to adjust to a diet that isn't based in our evolutionary framework requires some form of personal conviction and a social structure that reinforces it.
- CapitalistCartr 10y ago
  I have a moral conviction to not steal, yet when I was four, I stole another kid's Matchbook car (an ambulance) during recess at the Headstart program. My moral conviction isn't thereby lessened.
- f000g00b00gar 10y ago
  > Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. There are no physiological adaptations humans have to eating meat. We've been eating fruit for many millions of years longer; that is our natural diet.
- fredsir 10y ago
  > Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. I imagine that trying to adjust to a diet that isn't based in our evolutionary framework requires some form of personal conviction and a social structure that reinforces it. I don't believe that we have any instincts for eating meat like you suggest. It's not like a human is even capable of ripping fur and skin apart with our mouth, crushing bones with our teeth and tearing fresh meat off an animal and eating it. Well, not without getting sore in the jaw, broken teeth and probably a lot of sicknesses leading to death from the uncooked (or handled in any way) meat. If you put a baby in front of a animal, the baby won't think of it as food. We are not carnivores. We have simply learned to also eat meat. There's nothing about us requiring us to eat meat as long as we can get food from another sources. I've been vegan for 3 years. The only hard thing about it is other peoples comments and not as many vegan friendly restaurant, although already in 2017, two new places have opened in my town, and it looks like it's a trend that will continue.
  - cgh 10y ago
    There is massive anthropological and biological evidence to suggest that animals and "stuff you pick up" (seeds and so forth) are the original human diet. On a personal note, I was a vegetarian and later a vegan for a decade and I am familiar with the sort of "I feel it must have been this way" appeals to emotion (like referencing a baby and a presumably cute little animal) of the sort you're making. Arguments like yours are simply not supported by science.
nthcolumn 10y ago
Didn't you mean 'veal'? I don't think catholics call you up if you don't go to mass, or you can justifiably call yourself one if you are on your big spring killing spree although you might say you are a a vegan even if you had a BigMac when you were a kid. I'm not sure why it helps to conflate the two. I don't see many similarities other than eating tiny crackers. FWIW I stopped being a veggie because it was just too hard in Aussie and nearly all the veggie stuff was soya based and not much better for the environment than eating meat and I got really sick of bloody pumpkin soup being literally the only veg soup, that and bacon...
heurist 10y ago
Most vegans I've met are "mostly vegan". Occasionally eating meat is not a big deal. The problems start when they're the main part of your diet - you start increasing your disk of heart disease, diabetes, colon cancer, etc while also perpetuating environmental degredation. All very costly to society.
_dark_matter_ 10y ago
Eh, I disagree with this analysis. I consider myself vegan yet when we go out I'll surely eat some cheese, and once or twice a year I'll have a bit of meat. The "no community of judgement" goes both ways here, and honestly I don't really care what other people think anyways :)
mamcx 10y ago
> You can be a serial killer and still be a christian No. If you stick to what the Bible/Jesus say. You can be a former bad person, but to get the approval of God you must repent and stop doing terrible things. Being both is being hypocrite, and that is probably the worse of all, ie: Jesus dislike more the hypocrite than the honest sinner that acknowledge his own faults.

wyager 10y ago

It's unfortunate that you're being downvoted; that's a very interesting social analysis. I hadn't thought about confession operating as a relief valve for deviations from difficult social rules.

nthcolumn 10y ago
beware lions claiming to be veggie...

bogle 10y ago

The article implied you were more likely to remain a veggie if you lived with other veggies. They also cited not wishing to stand out as a reason for lapsing. I don't think, however, it would help someone remain veggie for long if it was being imposed on them in any way. The important points raised that may help a veggie stay the course would be to educate them on the environmental and moral implications of eating meat. Freedom of choice then rather than the imposition of a culture.

metamet 10y ago

> Too many people slip up once and feal that they are carnivores again. Well, aren't they? If you have a moral conviction for abstaining from meat, shouldn't that be enough to keep you coming back to your straight and narrow? Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. I imagine that trying to adjust to a diet that isn't based in our evolutionary framework requires some form of personal conviction and a social structure that reinforces it.

CapitalistCartr 10y ago
I have a moral conviction to not steal, yet when I was four, I stole another kid's Matchbook car (an ambulance) during recess at the Headstart program. My moral conviction isn't thereby lessened.
f000g00b00gar 10y ago
> Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. There are no physiological adaptations humans have to eating meat. We've been eating fruit for many millions of years longer; that is our natural diet.
fredsir 10y ago
> Humans have eaten meat for so long that it's engrained into our biochemistry. I imagine that trying to adjust to a diet that isn't based in our evolutionary framework requires some form of personal conviction and a social structure that reinforces it. I don't believe that we have any instincts for eating meat like you suggest. It's not like a human is even capable of ripping fur and skin apart with our mouth, crushing bones with our teeth and tearing fresh meat off an animal and eating it. Well, not without getting sore in the jaw, broken teeth and probably a lot of sicknesses leading to death from the uncooked (or handled in any way) meat. If you put a baby in front of a animal, the baby won't think of it as food. We are not carnivores. We have simply learned to also eat meat. There's nothing about us requiring us to eat meat as long as we can get food from another sources. I've been vegan for 3 years. The only hard thing about it is other peoples comments and not as many vegan friendly restaurant, although already in 2017, two new places have opened in my town, and it looks like it's a trend that will continue.
- cgh 10y ago
  There is massive anthropological and biological evidence to suggest that animals and "stuff you pick up" (seeds and so forth) are the original human diet. On a personal note, I was a vegetarian and later a vegan for a decade and I am familiar with the sort of "I feel it must have been this way" appeals to emotion (like referencing a baby and a presumably cute little animal) of the sort you're making. Arguments like yours are simply not supported by science.

nthcolumn 10y ago

Didn't you mean 'veal'? I don't think catholics call you up if you don't go to mass, or you can justifiably call yourself one if you are on your big spring killing spree although you might say you are a a vegan even if you had a BigMac when you were a kid. I'm not sure why it helps to conflate the two. I don't see many similarities other than eating tiny crackers. FWIW I stopped being a veggie because it was just too hard in Aussie and nearly all the veggie stuff was soya based and not much better for the environment than eating meat and I got really sick of bloody pumpkin soup being literally the only veg soup, that and bacon...

heurist 10y ago

Most vegans I've met are "mostly vegan". Occasionally eating meat is not a big deal. The problems start when they're the main part of your diet - you start increasing your disk of heart disease, diabetes, colon cancer, etc while also perpetuating environmental degredation. All very costly to society.

_dark_matter_ 10y ago

Eh, I disagree with this analysis. I consider myself vegan yet when we go out I'll surely eat some cheese, and once or twice a year I'll have a bit of meat. The "no community of judgement" goes both ways here, and honestly I don't really care what other people think anyways :)

mamcx 10y ago

> You can be a serial killer and still be a christian No. If you stick to what the Bible/Jesus say. You can be a former bad person, but to get the approval of God you must repent and stop doing terrible things. Being both is being hypocrite, and that is probably the worse of all, ie: Jesus dislike more the hypocrite than the honest sinner that acknowledge his own faults.