5 ms·

This will be used for unblockable ads and obfuscated content(i.e. forcing a specific style and layout), along with WebAssembly and DRM built into the next brows

This will be used for unblockable ads and obfuscated content(i.e. forcing a specific style and layout), along with WebAssembly and DRM built into the next browsers spec, this looks like the end of "free" web. Essentially this decouples the browser from DOM control and the ability to inspect and alter content, which is now dependent on some minified JS and ajax data.

beaconstudios 10y ago
some pet project to convert webkit to JS will be the end of the free web? seems a bit hyperbolic.
- FrozenVoid 10y ago
  Yes. You don't see the implications for advertisement industry and the ability to mandates standard content layout for publisher and web designers. Once they take a whiff of "standard canvas" benefits there will be a push to make it the next platform, like e.g. Jquery, react or hip new framework you like, except it will have commercial advantage for adopting it due advertisement being unblockable and reduced need for compatibility for other browser: they will be reduced to JS/Canvas renderers.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    I work in advertising, I'm pretty familiar with the technology involved. Everything you just described is what Flash ads were back in the day and the internet managed to survive those. Also, most ads now are HTML5 - but can be blocked based on URL or script contents. What makes you think that wouldn't also be the case for canvas ads? After all they have to be rendered via scripts.
    - saurik 10y ago
      If the entire page is being rendered in a simulated browser, much like how to block content on a full page Flash app (which we were on the verge of seeing a lot of had Apple not decided to destroy Flash by not supporting it on the iPhone) requires Flash-level introspection, blocking content then requires you to build a content blocker that lives at the level of the simulated browser, not the real one, only every web page could come with its own slightly-different and obfuscated engine (even if just due to an optimizing compiler and not on purpose). I think you are still thinking of "islands of canvas in a world full of HTML", and that is not the thought experiment in play here.
      - beaconstudios 10y ago
        have you seen how horribly non-performant the linked page is? and that's to render a bit of static SVG, which is much closer to the primary use case of canvas than a full dynamic web page. The idea that we'll have full web pages being completely powered by javascript on the pixel-level is ridiculous. Plus - so what if ads can't be blocked? It's not the "end of the free web" as the original commenter stated. That's pure hyperbole.
    - FrozenVoid 10y ago
      Its like a "nuclear option" to combat adblockers and will be used as last resort, emulating the whole browser won't be cheap(of course smaller emulators will emerge). Consider it like a preview of future web, closed&obfuscated to prevent adblocking and user-based content control.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
oxguy3 10y ago
This project has existed for three years and that hasn't happened yet. Rendering pages with this thing has many many downsides (most notably that it is insanely slow, but also that it is incredibly lacking in tons of basic functionality that would be a lot of work to implement) and very few upsides -- this JavaScript can be reverse-engineered just like any other.
TomMarius 10y ago
What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?
TomMarius 10y ago
What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?
TomMarius 10y ago
What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?

beaconstudios 10y ago

some pet project to convert webkit to JS will be the end of the free web? seems a bit hyperbolic.

FrozenVoid 10y ago
Yes. You don't see the implications for advertisement industry and the ability to mandates standard content layout for publisher and web designers. Once they take a whiff of "standard canvas" benefits there will be a push to make it the next platform, like e.g. Jquery, react or hip new framework you like, except it will have commercial advantage for adopting it due advertisement being unblockable and reduced need for compatibility for other browser: they will be reduced to JS/Canvas renderers.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  I work in advertising, I'm pretty familiar with the technology involved. Everything you just described is what Flash ads were back in the day and the internet managed to survive those. Also, most ads now are HTML5 - but can be blocked based on URL or script contents. What makes you think that wouldn't also be the case for canvas ads? After all they have to be rendered via scripts.
  - saurik 10y ago
    If the entire page is being rendered in a simulated browser, much like how to block content on a full page Flash app (which we were on the verge of seeing a lot of had Apple not decided to destroy Flash by not supporting it on the iPhone) requires Flash-level introspection, blocking content then requires you to build a content blocker that lives at the level of the simulated browser, not the real one, only every web page could come with its own slightly-different and obfuscated engine (even if just due to an optimizing compiler and not on purpose). I think you are still thinking of "islands of canvas in a world full of HTML", and that is not the thought experiment in play here.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      have you seen how horribly non-performant the linked page is? and that's to render a bit of static SVG, which is much closer to the primary use case of canvas than a full dynamic web page. The idea that we'll have full web pages being completely powered by javascript on the pixel-level is ridiculous. Plus - so what if ads can't be blocked? It's not the "end of the free web" as the original commenter stated. That's pure hyperbole.
  - FrozenVoid 10y ago
    Its like a "nuclear option" to combat adblockers and will be used as last resort, emulating the whole browser won't be cheap(of course smaller emulators will emerge). Consider it like a preview of future web, closed&obfuscated to prevent adblocking and user-based content control.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

oxguy3 10y ago

This project has existed for three years and that hasn't happened yet. Rendering pages with this thing has many many downsides (most notably that it is insanely slow, but also that it is incredibly lacking in tons of basic functionality that would be a lot of work to implement) and very few upsides -- this JavaScript can be reverse-engineered just like any other.

TomMarius 10y ago

What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?

TomMarius 10y ago

What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?

TomMarius 10y ago

What stops you from not using "non-free" websites? But more importantly, why do you think you're entitled to the content of a website if you're not willing to pay the price?