4 ms·

Apple is the nail in the coffin. The coffin was ordered by M$. But the battle, and the war, was lost long before Apple became the behemonth it is now. Apple di

Apple is the nail in the coffin. The coffin was ordered by M$. But the battle, and the war, was lost long before Apple became the behemonth it is now. Apple did nothing to kill OS, it arrived when it was dead. As for Google, they actually played a positive role back then. Whatever they do now, does not matter anymore. The window of oportunity closed long ago, and it was M$ who did it.

pluma 10y ago
> they actually played a positive role back then Stop living in the past. Do you just want to wallow in self-pity about what could have been or are you actually upset about real problems that are fixable? Apple is halting progress of web standards right now. Apple is locking in users into its closed ecosystem (good luck trying to develop for iOS without macOS). Google and Facebook are "embracing, extending, extinguishing" the web (AMP, Instant Articles, PNaCl, etc). Even the W3C has bowed down to the copyright industry with proprietary window dressing in the name of DRM. Not everything these companies do is evil, the attacks are far less orchestrated than those carried out by Microsoft back in the days, but they're happening and they're here. If you just want to hate Microsoft for nostalgia's sake like the grumpy old vet who still can't get over how the US lost in Vietnam, that's fine. But don't pretend you care about principles if all you can do is hold a grudge against what was and don't give a fuck about what is.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  I do not directly (the world is a complicated place) support, financially or otherwise, Apple or M$. I boycott them both whenever I get the chance. I am relatively cool about Google. I do not live in the past, but I still like to point out what happened, whenever I get the chance. They are solely to blame (with a minor role by Sun / SCO) of the mess we are in. As I already mentioned, Apple is simply evil, but is not to blame for the destruction of OS. For me to change my mind about M$, BIG things should happen. I think the minor grievance of referring to them by M$ can be endured, even by sensitive bystanders.
  - consz 10y ago
    I think the relevant issue with using a phrase like "M$" is it trivializes your argument. It makes your argument look childish, regardless of the actual content.
    - gonvaled 10y ago
      It's a good shortcut to properly summarize the previously stated arguments. Those who know what we are talking about, understand that. If they nevertheless attack it as childish, even knowing that what lies behind is a complex story of ideology wars, propelled by lies and disinformation, are simply being dishonest. Those who don't know what lies behind the symbolism, maybe care to inform themselves.
      - consz 10y ago
        Then why phrase your argument in a way that discourages them from informing themselves (by encouraging them to perceive it as childish)? Unless your audience is explicitly to ignore those who don't already know and understand your argument.
        nimchimpsky 10y ago
        I really don't understand the amount of debate using M$ has caused. Its an off the cuff shorthand term. The defensiveness of some people here is incredible.

pluma 10y ago

> they actually played a positive role back then Stop living in the past. Do you just want to wallow in self-pity about what could have been or are you actually upset about real problems that are fixable? Apple is halting progress of web standards right now. Apple is locking in users into its closed ecosystem (good luck trying to develop for iOS without macOS). Google and Facebook are "embracing, extending, extinguishing" the web (AMP, Instant Articles, PNaCl, etc). Even the W3C has bowed down to the copyright industry with proprietary window dressing in the name of DRM. Not everything these companies do is evil, the attacks are far less orchestrated than those carried out by Microsoft back in the days, but they're happening and they're here. If you just want to hate Microsoft for nostalgia's sake like the grumpy old vet who still can't get over how the US lost in Vietnam, that's fine. But don't pretend you care about principles if all you can do is hold a grudge against what was and don't give a fuck about what is.

gonvaled 10y ago
I do not directly (the world is a complicated place) support, financially or otherwise, Apple or M$. I boycott them both whenever I get the chance. I am relatively cool about Google. I do not live in the past, but I still like to point out what happened, whenever I get the chance. They are solely to blame (with a minor role by Sun / SCO) of the mess we are in. As I already mentioned, Apple is simply evil, but is not to blame for the destruction of OS. For me to change my mind about M$, BIG things should happen. I think the minor grievance of referring to them by M$ can be endured, even by sensitive bystanders.
- consz 10y ago
  I think the relevant issue with using a phrase like "M$" is it trivializes your argument. It makes your argument look childish, regardless of the actual content.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    It's a good shortcut to properly summarize the previously stated arguments. Those who know what we are talking about, understand that. If they nevertheless attack it as childish, even knowing that what lies behind is a complex story of ideology wars, propelled by lies and disinformation, are simply being dishonest. Those who don't know what lies behind the symbolism, maybe care to inform themselves.
    - consz 10y ago
      Then why phrase your argument in a way that discourages them from informing themselves (by encouraging them to perceive it as childish)? Unless your audience is explicitly to ignore those who don't already know and understand your argument.
      - nimchimpsky 10y ago
        I really don't understand the amount of debate using M$ has caused. Its an off the cuff shorthand term. The defensiveness of some people here is incredible.