7 ms·

Vote Lib Dem. Seriously. I am a candidate in very north london, we're all organised for this possibility.

by tehwalrus 9y ago

bogle 9y ago
Yeah, 'cause you did such a sterling job last time?
- popey456963 9y ago
  Considering how we're doing now? Yeah, I'm pretty cool with how they handled things.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Accacin 9y ago
  Yeah they did, in my eyes they did a great job stopping Tories doing too much damage. I'm also one who was affected by their tuition u-turn also but I decided to get over it.
  - tspiteri 9y ago
    And it is a bit ironic that New Labour introduced tuition fees, the Tories were the coalition partner that wanted to increase them, but it is the Lib Dems who caught all the flak.
    - bshimmin 9y ago
      It's understandable that they took a hammering over it: it was a tentpole pledge, they couldn't stick to it, and they then apologised for it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731
      - tspiteri 9y ago
        Of course you're right. I just pointed out that the Tories and Labour did worse on the issue and suffered less for it. But then, the Lib Dems did the pledge and weren't able to stand up for it, so they did deserve some punishment.
- branchless 9y ago
  Libdems lost the trust of students everywhere. I like core libdem ideas on land but sadly they were led by empty suits like Clegg and Cable. Anyhow, under first past the post your vote means nothing. Kneel before your boomer overlords, who will be bribed and who will enslave their own kids for their gain.
- a_humean 9y ago
  Given that the country basically fell apart the moment we went out of coalition government - yeah I'm not too uncomfortable with the record at this point despite lots of reservations on things like austerity and the tution fee embarrassment (which in the scheme of politics today is the least of anyone's concerns). I would have prefered a Labour + LibDem coalition in 2010 and 2015, but for what its worth the Lib Dems kept the conservatives on the side of sanity between 2010 and 2015. Without the lib dems they were torn apart by the far right of their party.
- EliRivers 9y ago
  Zing! That was a pun about currency value, yes? :)
Nursie 9y ago
Good for you. I will be voting Lib Dem as I always have. Not that fussed about EU membership either way but if the LDs can capture a decent proportion of the 'remain' vote then that could mean a huge boost. Best of luck!
caoilte 9y ago
No thanks. It was your austerity cuts that created the favourable climate for Brexit in the first place.
- MerreM 9y ago
  Haven't seen a party opposed to austerity in a long, long time. I'll probably be voting short term "stop this madness"
  - sideshowb 9y ago
    Erm, Labour under Jezza?
- ciaranm 9y ago
  I think your aim is a bit off. Might be better pointing your ire at the conservatives.
  - smcl 9y ago
    Lib Dems looked pretty comfortable with the whole thing
nthcolumn 9y ago
Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Petitioning the people again (whilst ignoring the inconvenient ones)? You'd have thought Cameron's dodgy success rate would have put paid to that. Of course your lot fell for the PR one... that worked so we got one on Scotland - ooh squeaky - and then he tried it again on Europe:'not so great' as POTUS would say. How easy will it be to make this an anti-Brexit vote, a vote to keep Scotland, a vote on the NHS, on social care, an anti-Trump vote, a pro-status quo, conservative with a small 'C' anti-change vote, an anti-war vote, an anti-elitist grammar schools, a kick the arrogant Tory toffs of Johnson, Gove and Hunt... the Tories are hugely unpopular in spite of the Lab-Con polls (Labour are just even more unpopular) We live in interesting times!
- dagw 9y ago
  Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Labour is in a bit of leadership dispute and the Article 50 negotiations haven't had time to go bad. Now is probably the best possible time to call an election. This time next year Labour might have gotten their house in order and the first results of the negotiations with the EU will be in and under close scrutiny, and it is very likely the the government will have been forced to make some tough concessions. Both of those things are likely to make winning an election much harder. Also if they win now they can conduct the Article 50 negotiations in peace and with clear mandate. Trying to win an election and negotiate Brexit at the same time will be much harder, if for no other reason than the fact that the person across the table won't have any idea if the person they're talking to now will be in charge when it comes time to actually sign the papers.
  - nthcolumn 9y ago
    Not a two party thing at all though eh? They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. They will have to carry on with a minority government trying to negotiate a Brexit they no longer have a mandate for - LOL!
    - dagw 9y ago
      They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. That is certainly one possible outcome. However the Tories seem rather convinced that they can keep and even increase their majority (although the Tories do seem to have a thing for taking big bets with the country on election outcomes). And if they end up even just keeping their majority it will remove the whole "Theresa May has no public mandate to negotiate Brexit" argument from the table. It will also give them 5 more years to ride out the Brexit storm before having to face the voters again.
awjr 9y ago
Vote for your Progressive Alliance candidate. Both Greens and Lib Dems have signed up to this and will hopefully put forward one agreed candidate locally in your area. Basically you are voting for an Anti-Brexit and pro proportional representation candidate. This is not about party allegiance, this is all about brexit.
- johnlbevan2 9y ago
  Related link: https://action.greenparty.org.uk/progressive-alliance https://action.greenparty.org.uk/progressive-alliance
- Silhouette 9y ago
  This is not about party allegiance, this is all about brexit. Which, frankly, is scary in itself. Brexit, in whatever form, is far the only thing that matters in government. We also have significant and immediate concerns about the NHS, the education system at several different levels, our transport and communications infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, the environment and natural resources, the changing nature of work and employment, over-centralisation around London, the erosion of civil liberties, and other issues. Many of these could have far greater effects on the average citizen than anything to do with Brexit is likely to cause, even over the next few years and certainly in the long term, but they're being drowned out by an issue that is, in the big picture, simply not that big a deal.
  - awjr 9y ago
    When 40% of your NHS workforce are potentially at risk due to Brexit, or when farming as we know it will collapse, then it very very much is a big deal. However you are right that what should be happening is that the current intended prosecutions for electoral fraud should be completed (report due 12th of June) before any election is considered. The opposition parties should not be voting for to enact an election.
    - Silhouette 9y ago
      The 40% figure you mentioned is far higher than I've seen previously, for example here: https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/ https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/ That dates from last year, but suggests only 5% of NHS staff overall and 10% of doctors at that time were immigrants from elsewhere in the EU, and that this was a lower proportion than immigrants from non-EU nations. Talk of farming collapsing also seems rather extreme. There are some important subsidies from the EU that do support genuine farming, but there is a lot more in the CAP that really doesn't. I'm far more worried about not just underfunding but morale in the NHS, and in those who are leaving it or who might consider working within it in the future. For example, the figures for doctors planning leaving the profession in the near future compared to those starting to train to become doctors are not comfortable reading next to our predicted national demographics in the future. I'm also far more worried about the kinds of conditions that make genuine farming need hand-outs to be viable. If that is the case then it seems likely that market forces and/or national resilience strategies have failed catastrophically already and those problems need to be addressed in their own right. It's not that Brexit couldn't affect these things, I just think some of our existing problems are significantly bigger and their effects longer-lasting than any likely changes due to post-Brexit arrangements.
ue_ 9y ago
I agreed with the Lib Dems on about two issues: privacy and censorship. For these, I disagree with the Labour line. However I am also against capitalist exploitation, and that makes a stronger case for me than the previous two issues. If the Lib Dems became a Democratic/Liberal Socialist party, I'd be happier.
- tehwalrus 9y ago
  I am a social liberal (Lib Dem), my wife is a liberal socialist (labour). We disagree pretty much only on those issues (privacy, data protection.) Capitalism = bad, Markets = OKish. It's only the Tories who believe in unrepentant profit mongering as a good way to organise society. (Oh, and UKIP. are they still a thing?)
  - collyw 9y ago
    Ahead of the Lib dems in a poll I just saw on the BBC.
smcl 9y ago
Why vote Lib Dem? If the last election turned out slightly differently and the Conservatives still needed the coalition, I bet they'd be out happily singing the praises of Brexit to us all, and walking back their campaign promises. They previously always had a "were not like Labour/Con" cred, but the coalition showed that this simply is not true
- barrkel 9y ago
  Brexit is more important than college fees.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    Brexit is more important than college fees. Is it, really? People say things like this a lot at the moment, but the objective reality is that for a lot of graduates in the current tuition fees and student loans system, they are leaving university already tens of thousands of pounds in debt. Earning anything resembling a "normal" graduate salary -- which of course isn't guaranteed these days -- they will then be making repayments that effectively increase their marginal income tax rate by a whopping 9%. And with the current rate of inflation and the 3% extra interest that gets added on top, most of those repayments will actually just be servicing interest. Bottom line: a young person graduating this year will have huge debts at the start of their career, they could be facing an extra tax-like burden for most of their working lives, and they're entering a workforce that demands more and offers less than any previous generation in recent history has faced. And that's before you even consider things like the housing market or the likelihood of that generation receiving a useful state pension by the time they retire. How is anything related to Brexit, even in the most negative possible outcome, going to have anywhere close to that effect on the life of a young person who graduates this year?
    - barrkel 9y ago
      It is. Nationalism is on the march, and with it war won't be far away. We're looking at a disintegration of the Western order and the rise of China and a threat from Russia, and a self-interested USA. I don't think the individual countries of Western Europe have a hope standing alone; they will have their arms twisted and they'll toe someone else's line, like it or not, if they can't band together.
deadbunny 9y ago
After the omnishambles last time? No thanks.
ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
I wish you all the best. I think you may be able to capture some Conservative voters who do not like what is going on, but critically as always there need to be enough people without a defeatist attitude to switch and for you to succeed.

Vote Lib Dem. Seriously. I am a candidate in very north london, we're all organised for this possibility.

bogle 9y ago

Yeah, 'cause you did such a sterling job last time?

popey456963 9y ago
Considering how we're doing now? Yeah, I'm pretty cool with how they handled things.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Accacin 9y ago
Yeah they did, in my eyes they did a great job stopping Tories doing too much damage. I'm also one who was affected by their tuition u-turn also but I decided to get over it.
- tspiteri 9y ago
  And it is a bit ironic that New Labour introduced tuition fees, the Tories were the coalition partner that wanted to increase them, but it is the Lib Dems who caught all the flak.
  - bshimmin 9y ago
    It's understandable that they took a hammering over it: it was a tentpole pledge, they couldn't stick to it, and they then apologised for it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731
    - tspiteri 9y ago
      Of course you're right. I just pointed out that the Tories and Labour did worse on the issue and suffered less for it. But then, the Lib Dems did the pledge and weren't able to stand up for it, so they did deserve some punishment.
branchless 9y ago
Libdems lost the trust of students everywhere. I like core libdem ideas on land but sadly they were led by empty suits like Clegg and Cable. Anyhow, under first past the post your vote means nothing. Kneel before your boomer overlords, who will be bribed and who will enslave their own kids for their gain.
a_humean 9y ago
Given that the country basically fell apart the moment we went out of coalition government - yeah I'm not too uncomfortable with the record at this point despite lots of reservations on things like austerity and the tution fee embarrassment (which in the scheme of politics today is the least of anyone's concerns). I would have prefered a Labour + LibDem coalition in 2010 and 2015, but for what its worth the Lib Dems kept the conservatives on the side of sanity between 2010 and 2015. Without the lib dems they were torn apart by the far right of their party.
EliRivers 9y ago
Zing! That was a pun about currency value, yes? :)

Nursie 9y ago

Good for you. I will be voting Lib Dem as I always have. Not that fussed about EU membership either way but if the LDs can capture a decent proportion of the 'remain' vote then that could mean a huge boost. Best of luck!

caoilte 9y ago

No thanks. It was your austerity cuts that created the favourable climate for Brexit in the first place.

MerreM 9y ago
Haven't seen a party opposed to austerity in a long, long time. I'll probably be voting short term "stop this madness"
- sideshowb 9y ago
  Erm, Labour under Jezza?
ciaranm 9y ago
I think your aim is a bit off. Might be better pointing your ire at the conservatives.
- smcl 9y ago
  Lib Dems looked pretty comfortable with the whole thing

nthcolumn 9y ago

Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Petitioning the people again (whilst ignoring the inconvenient ones)? You'd have thought Cameron's dodgy success rate would have put paid to that. Of course your lot fell for the PR one... that worked so we got one on Scotland - ooh squeaky - and then he tried it again on Europe:'not so great' as POTUS would say. How easy will it be to make this an anti-Brexit vote, a vote to keep Scotland, a vote on the NHS, on social care, an anti-Trump vote, a pro-status quo, conservative with a small 'C' anti-change vote, an anti-war vote, an anti-elitist grammar schools, a kick the arrogant Tory toffs of Johnson, Gove and Hunt... the Tories are hugely unpopular in spite of the Lab-Con polls (Labour are just even more unpopular) We live in interesting times!

dagw 9y ago
Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Labour is in a bit of leadership dispute and the Article 50 negotiations haven't had time to go bad. Now is probably the best possible time to call an election. This time next year Labour might have gotten their house in order and the first results of the negotiations with the EU will be in and under close scrutiny, and it is very likely the the government will have been forced to make some tough concessions. Both of those things are likely to make winning an election much harder. Also if they win now they can conduct the Article 50 negotiations in peace and with clear mandate. Trying to win an election and negotiate Brexit at the same time will be much harder, if for no other reason than the fact that the person across the table won't have any idea if the person they're talking to now will be in charge when it comes time to actually sign the papers.
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  Not a two party thing at all though eh? They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. They will have to carry on with a minority government trying to negotiate a Brexit they no longer have a mandate for - LOL!
  - dagw 9y ago
    They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. That is certainly one possible outcome. However the Tories seem rather convinced that they can keep and even increase their majority (although the Tories do seem to have a thing for taking big bets with the country on election outcomes). And if they end up even just keeping their majority it will remove the whole "Theresa May has no public mandate to negotiate Brexit" argument from the table. It will also give them 5 more years to ride out the Brexit storm before having to face the voters again.

awjr 9y ago

Vote for your Progressive Alliance candidate. Both Greens and Lib Dems have signed up to this and will hopefully put forward one agreed candidate locally in your area. Basically you are voting for an Anti-Brexit and pro proportional representation candidate. This is not about party allegiance, this is all about brexit.

johnlbevan2 9y ago
Related link: https://action.greenparty.org.uk/progressive-alliance https://action.greenparty.org.uk/progressive-alliance
Silhouette 9y ago
This is not about party allegiance, this is all about brexit. Which, frankly, is scary in itself. Brexit, in whatever form, is far the only thing that matters in government. We also have significant and immediate concerns about the NHS, the education system at several different levels, our transport and communications infrastructure, our energy infrastructure, the environment and natural resources, the changing nature of work and employment, over-centralisation around London, the erosion of civil liberties, and other issues. Many of these could have far greater effects on the average citizen than anything to do with Brexit is likely to cause, even over the next few years and certainly in the long term, but they're being drowned out by an issue that is, in the big picture, simply not that big a deal.
- awjr 9y ago
  When 40% of your NHS workforce are potentially at risk due to Brexit, or when farming as we know it will collapse, then it very very much is a big deal. However you are right that what should be happening is that the current intended prosecutions for electoral fraud should be completed (report due 12th of June) before any election is considered. The opposition parties should not be voting for to enact an election.
  - Silhouette 9y ago
    The 40% figure you mentioned is far higher than I've seen previously, for example here: https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/ https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-nhs-staff/ That dates from last year, but suggests only 5% of NHS staff overall and 10% of doctors at that time were immigrants from elsewhere in the EU, and that this was a lower proportion than immigrants from non-EU nations. Talk of farming collapsing also seems rather extreme. There are some important subsidies from the EU that do support genuine farming, but there is a lot more in the CAP that really doesn't. I'm far more worried about not just underfunding but morale in the NHS, and in those who are leaving it or who might consider working within it in the future. For example, the figures for doctors planning leaving the profession in the near future compared to those starting to train to become doctors are not comfortable reading next to our predicted national demographics in the future. I'm also far more worried about the kinds of conditions that make genuine farming need hand-outs to be viable. If that is the case then it seems likely that market forces and/or national resilience strategies have failed catastrophically already and those problems need to be addressed in their own right. It's not that Brexit couldn't affect these things, I just think some of our existing problems are significantly bigger and their effects longer-lasting than any likely changes due to post-Brexit arrangements.

ue_ 9y ago

I agreed with the Lib Dems on about two issues: privacy and censorship. For these, I disagree with the Labour line. However I am also against capitalist exploitation, and that makes a stronger case for me than the previous two issues. If the Lib Dems became a Democratic/Liberal Socialist party, I'd be happier.

tehwalrus 9y ago
I am a social liberal (Lib Dem), my wife is a liberal socialist (labour). We disagree pretty much only on those issues (privacy, data protection.) Capitalism = bad, Markets = OKish. It's only the Tories who believe in unrepentant profit mongering as a good way to organise society. (Oh, and UKIP. are they still a thing?)
- collyw 9y ago
  Ahead of the Lib dems in a poll I just saw on the BBC.

smcl 9y ago

Why vote Lib Dem? If the last election turned out slightly differently and the Conservatives still needed the coalition, I bet they'd be out happily singing the praises of Brexit to us all, and walking back their campaign promises. They previously always had a "were not like Labour/Con" cred, but the coalition showed that this simply is not true

barrkel 9y ago
Brexit is more important than college fees.
- Silhouette 9y ago
  Brexit is more important than college fees. Is it, really? People say things like this a lot at the moment, but the objective reality is that for a lot of graduates in the current tuition fees and student loans system, they are leaving university already tens of thousands of pounds in debt. Earning anything resembling a "normal" graduate salary -- which of course isn't guaranteed these days -- they will then be making repayments that effectively increase their marginal income tax rate by a whopping 9%. And with the current rate of inflation and the 3% extra interest that gets added on top, most of those repayments will actually just be servicing interest. Bottom line: a young person graduating this year will have huge debts at the start of their career, they could be facing an extra tax-like burden for most of their working lives, and they're entering a workforce that demands more and offers less than any previous generation in recent history has faced. And that's before you even consider things like the housing market or the likelihood of that generation receiving a useful state pension by the time they retire. How is anything related to Brexit, even in the most negative possible outcome, going to have anywhere close to that effect on the life of a young person who graduates this year?
  - barrkel 9y ago
    It is. Nationalism is on the march, and with it war won't be far away. We're looking at a disintegration of the Western order and the rise of China and a threat from Russia, and a self-interested USA. I don't think the individual countries of Western Europe have a hope standing alone; they will have their arms twisted and they'll toe someone else's line, like it or not, if they can't band together.

deadbunny 9y ago

After the omnishambles last time? No thanks.

ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago

I wish you all the best. I think you may be able to capture some Conservative voters who do not like what is going on, but critically as always there need to be enough people without a defeatist attitude to switch and for you to succeed.