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The Labour Party establishment have tried to dethrone Corbyn before and failed. He's an odd case. He commands a lot of influence among Labour members and to so

The Labour Party establishment have tried to dethrone Corbyn before and failed. He's an odd case. He commands a lot of influence among Labour members and to some extent the unions (who have significant ties to and influence on the Labour Party here). This makes him more-or-less untouchable as party leader. However, he's loathed by most of the party's current MPs, who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time. And he's not particularly popular among the general public outside the traditional Labour voters, which is why he's going to be a liability. The irony of the snap election, if it does happen, is that it will be an opportunity for Corbyn to clear out the disloyal backstabbers in the Commons and replace them with more traditional Labour MPs, which is probably why he seems to have said previously that he'd support calls for a snap election. On the other hand, he would probably lose so many MPs altogether that his party would become almost irrelevant in the next Parliament, much as the Lib Dems did last time. A somewhat ironic but apparently quite plausible outcome to all the political manoeuvres is that Corbyn says Labour will support the snap election, almost all of his MPs openly rebel, the election consequently doesn't achieve the 2/3 support needed in the Commons and so doesn't happen, May is weakened and probably steps down as a result, and Corbyn is also so weakened that he finally goes, thus making the two party leaders who were playing the political games the major victims of those games. We live in interesting times, literally and perhaps euphemistically as well. [Edit: Added a missing bit. Thanks, gpvos.]

gedankespiel 10y ago
>who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time I daresay that it's them who are making the party a liability. They've made the Labour Party seem completely ridiculous - and that's not Corbyn's fault.
arethuza 10y ago
"almost all of his MPs openly rebel" No wonder - I suspect a lot of them will be out of a job soon.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  But not for at least three years unless there is an early election...
TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
I was a Corbyn supporter, on the basis that we'd had too many Labour leaders who went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy. Then on Brexit, he went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy. Needless to say I'm no longer a supporter. Of course, it's easy to forget that all the other leadership candidates and challengers would have done the same. I'd love to see the scenario in your final paragraph. I think May knows it's all or nothing, and if anything gets in the way of her timetable, it's game over for her and for Brexit. I don't honestly expect that to happen, because I'm fairly sure that Corbyn is either delusional or compromised - and also willing to use a three-line whip to make sure the election goes ahead.
- ue_ 10y ago
  I'm still a Corbyn supporter, and I think he's had a difficult time, having to owe up to his own goals, the goals of his grassroots movement and the goals of the old time voters and unions. This is very highlighted on the EU move; I don't think it's charitable to say that he "supported Tory policy"; the members don't mean anything when the majority of people voting for you aren't members. So what would you have done if you were him? Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position, or go with your voting base and disregard your members? Brexit was a hot button topic for many reasons and arguably the fact that someone is either a Tory supporter or betraying their voter base is an example of politics becoming more about principle than doing what's right.
  - RugnirViking 10y ago
    'Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position' I don't understand why its to be taken as a given that noone will vote for the anti-brexit party, given that a was a good 45% of the population supported it? surely then all you have to do is win 10% of the population over with other arguments to win?
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  Corbyn is not to blame for this. When Harriet Harman was caretaker leader after Ed Miliband resigned, Labour MPs voted in favour of having the referendum on EU membership. They should therefore feel bound by its result. The only party which voted against having the referendum, and who aren't similarly bound, were the SNP.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
caoilte 10y ago
openly blocking the call for an early election would be really interesting, but I wonder if it would actually lead to either Corbyn or May resigning. There are straight forward routes through for both of them. May :- repeal the fixed term parliaments act (which would be an entertaining kick in the teeth to the Lib Dems) Corbyn :- accuse Labour rebels of not respecting democracy and even question their motives w/regard to Brexit. On that basis I can't see enough Labour rebels actually turning out to block it. They're more likely to walk away from politics completely (their heart was never really in the business of fighting for something).
DonaldFisk 10y ago
How is Corbyn playing political games? He had the overwhelming support of members in two leadership elections. The people playing political games have been those Labour MPs who have been trying to get him to stand down. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  How is Corbyn playing political games? I suspect he's considering his own position and the general dissatisfaction he faces among his current crop of MPs, and he's probably figuring this is a chance to clean house a bit. I also suspect the extremely short notice given by May is designed to frustrate that effort. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. I imagine some current Labour MPs with Blairite leanings really might prefer having the Tories in government if a Corbyn-led administration is the alternative. The Tory position on a lot of issues is probably closer to their own. Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't. But being voted leader by a party who like him is far different from getting votes from anyone else, and almost everyone's policies are popular until you start asking the hard questions like how you're going to pay for it or who else is going to lose out as a result. I don't think either the general public's view of him or any resulting electability problems are entirely down to the media.
  - DonaldFisk 10y ago
    I would hope that any Labour MPs who want the Tories to win rather than a Corbyn-led Labour Party would have the integrity to resign their seats and stand as Tories, instead of undermining the party from within. Theresa May's just taking advantage of her huge poll lead, which is mostly down to a divided official opposition.
    - 10y ago

gedankespiel 10y ago

>who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time I daresay that it's them who are making the party a liability. They've made the Labour Party seem completely ridiculous - and that's not Corbyn's fault.

arethuza 10y ago

"almost all of his MPs openly rebel" No wonder - I suspect a lot of them will be out of a job soon.

Silhouette 10y ago
But not for at least three years unless there is an early election...

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago

I was a Corbyn supporter, on the basis that we'd had too many Labour leaders who went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy. Then on Brexit, he went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy. Needless to say I'm no longer a supporter. Of course, it's easy to forget that all the other leadership candidates and challengers would have done the same. I'd love to see the scenario in your final paragraph. I think May knows it's all or nothing, and if anything gets in the way of her timetable, it's game over for her and for Brexit. I don't honestly expect that to happen, because I'm fairly sure that Corbyn is either delusional or compromised - and also willing to use a three-line whip to make sure the election goes ahead.

ue_ 10y ago
I'm still a Corbyn supporter, and I think he's had a difficult time, having to owe up to his own goals, the goals of his grassroots movement and the goals of the old time voters and unions. This is very highlighted on the EU move; I don't think it's charitable to say that he "supported Tory policy"; the members don't mean anything when the majority of people voting for you aren't members. So what would you have done if you were him? Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position, or go with your voting base and disregard your members? Brexit was a hot button topic for many reasons and arguably the fact that someone is either a Tory supporter or betraying their voter base is an example of politics becoming more about principle than doing what's right.
- RugnirViking 10y ago
  'Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position' I don't understand why its to be taken as a given that noone will vote for the anti-brexit party, given that a was a good 45% of the population supported it? surely then all you have to do is win 10% of the population over with other arguments to win?
DonaldFisk 10y ago
Corbyn is not to blame for this. When Harriet Harman was caretaker leader after Ed Miliband resigned, Labour MPs voted in favour of having the referendum on EU membership. They should therefore feel bound by its result. The only party which voted against having the referendum, and who aren't similarly bound, were the SNP.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

caoilte 10y ago

openly blocking the call for an early election would be really interesting, but I wonder if it would actually lead to either Corbyn or May resigning. There are straight forward routes through for both of them. May :- repeal the fixed term parliaments act (which would be an entertaining kick in the teeth to the Lib Dems) Corbyn :- accuse Labour rebels of not respecting democracy and even question their motives w/regard to Brexit. On that basis I can't see enough Labour rebels actually turning out to block it. They're more likely to walk away from politics completely (their heart was never really in the business of fighting for something).

DonaldFisk 10y ago

How is Corbyn playing political games? He had the overwhelming support of members in two leadership elections. The people playing political games have been those Labour MPs who have been trying to get him to stand down. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't.

Silhouette 10y ago
How is Corbyn playing political games? I suspect he's considering his own position and the general dissatisfaction he faces among his current crop of MPs, and he's probably figuring this is a chance to clean house a bit. I also suspect the extremely short notice given by May is designed to frustrate that effort. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government. I imagine some current Labour MPs with Blairite leanings really might prefer having the Tories in government if a Corbyn-led administration is the alternative. The Tory position on a lot of issues is probably closer to their own. Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't. But being voted leader by a party who like him is far different from getting votes from anyone else, and almost everyone's policies are popular until you start asking the hard questions like how you're going to pay for it or who else is going to lose out as a result. I don't think either the general public's view of him or any resulting electability problems are entirely down to the media.
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  I would hope that any Labour MPs who want the Tories to win rather than a Corbyn-led Labour Party would have the integrity to resign their seats and stand as Tories, instead of undermining the party from within. Theresa May's just taking advantage of her huge poll lead, which is mostly down to a divided official opposition.
  - 10y ago