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I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU v

by Kurtz79 10y ago

I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU voters ?

headmelted 10y ago
In the current timeframe, yes. The only person who's trying to do that right now and is at all visible to the public eye is Tony Blair.. and there's just no way that's going to go over with the public.
- RugnirViking 10y ago
  The thought of Tony Blair attempting this in vain is amusing to me. If it was literally anyone else...
evgen 10y ago
Nothing will happen in the short term, but the upcoming hammering that Labour will endure is probably going to be the catalyst for either a successful challenge or a final split between the populist far left in Labour and the urban Blairites.
arethuza 10y ago
Pretty much, Corbyn has gathered a lot of grass roots support but will fail to appeal to the wider electorate. I suspect there is a good chance that Labour in the rest of the UK will implode after this election in the same way that it has collapsed in Scotland (although I'm not clear who voters would transfer their loyalties to as they have here in Scotland where the SNP now dominates).
- gideonparanoid 10y ago
  A lot of that grass roots support is young & as a result has much less weight for voting, unfortunately.
  - gtirloni 10y ago
    Unless older people's votes get counted twice, how does the young have less weight for voting? As an outsider, the news that got to me was that older people simply showed up to vote (and others didn't).
    - gideonparanoid 10y ago
      I'm thinking of the fact that there's far more 'older' people, young people are less likely to vote & young people also captures people below the voting age.
    - barrkel 10y ago
      Voting probability is lower.
    - d4rti 10y ago
      There are more older people in total.
    - awjr 10y ago
      As you get older you get more politically active. I'm guessing the retired have more time on their hands. The young just aren't too bothered. Have a feeling, with Brexit, the biggest losers are the young and I hope that there is at least some semblance that they can do something about it this time.
Silhouette 10y ago
The Labour Party establishment have tried to dethrone Corbyn before and failed. He's an odd case. He commands a lot of influence among Labour members and to some extent the unions (who have significant ties to and influence on the Labour Party here). This makes him more-or-less untouchable as party leader. However, he's loathed by most of the party's current MPs, who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time. And he's not particularly popular among the general public outside the traditional Labour voters, which is why he's going to be a liability. The irony of the snap election, if it does happen, is that it will be an opportunity for Corbyn to clear out the disloyal backstabbers in the Commons and replace them with more traditional Labour MPs, which is probably why he seems to have said previously that he'd support calls for a snap election. On the other hand, he would probably lose so many MPs altogether that his party would become almost irrelevant in the next Parliament, much as the Lib Dems did last time. A somewhat ironic but apparently quite plausible outcome to all the political manoeuvres is that Corbyn says Labour will support the snap election, almost all of his MPs openly rebel, the election consequently doesn't achieve the 2/3 support needed in the Commons and so doesn't happen, May is weakened and probably steps down as a result, and Corbyn is also so weakened that he finally goes, thus making the two party leaders who were playing the political games the major victims of those games. We live in interesting times, literally and perhaps euphemistically as well. [Edit: Added a missing bit. Thanks, gpvos.]
- gedankespiel 10y ago
  >who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time I daresay that it's them who are making the party a liability. They've made the Labour Party seem completely ridiculous - and that's not Corbyn's fault.
- arethuza 10y ago
  "almost all of his MPs openly rebel" No wonder - I suspect a lot of them will be out of a job soon.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    But not for at least three years unless there is an early election...
mcjiggerlog 10y ago
There is zero chance of that happening before the election, yes. The only major pro-EU voice in parliament now (discounting regional parties) is Lib Dems.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Worth noting that the largest "regional" party, the SNP, has 54 MPs which is six times the 9 MPs that the Lib Dems have.
  - s_kilk 10y ago
    And they're an actual opposition too
  - TorKlingberg 10y ago
    Yes, but their upside is limited. They already have almost all Scottish seats, and they are not going to win elsewhere.
    - youngtaff 10y ago
      Our biggest hope is the SNP put candidates into England
deadbunny 10y ago
Everyone is always describing Corbyn as some far left nutjob, look at Europe or Scandinavia and you'll see he is actually the moderate left. Don't let the continued hatchet job by every media outlet in the country fool you.
- Keronk 10y ago
  Corbyn isn't in Europe or Scandanavia, I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn. Maybe you should ask yourself why in your lifetime a Labour leader hasn't won an election without dominating the centre of the political spectrum. Corbyn is too far left to win a general election the press have nothing to do with it, Teresa May is becoming increasing right wing and he lacks the common sense to vacate that position.
  - deadbunny 10y ago
    > I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn. Nice assumptions there, shame they are incorrect other than my location. My point is that Corbyn is a bog standard left of centre politician in a left of centre party. If you honestly believe the press have nothing to do with the image of him being a left wing loon then I honestly don't think you're paying attention. He is continually painted as a terrorist sympathizer for his views that talking and treating others as humans actually gets shit resolved (you know, diplomacy), he's quoted out of context time and again to paint him into the fringe left rather than where he actually stands. That said, I agree that he's not the right candidate to get elected in the UK and he has been particularly ineffectual at providing any meaningful opposition to either Cameron or May both of whom I think Thatcher would think was a bit extreme.

by Kurtz79 10y ago

I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU voters ?

headmelted 10y ago

In the current timeframe, yes. The only person who's trying to do that right now and is at all visible to the public eye is Tony Blair.. and there's just no way that's going to go over with the public.

RugnirViking 10y ago
The thought of Tony Blair attempting this in vain is amusing to me. If it was literally anyone else...

evgen 10y ago

Nothing will happen in the short term, but the upcoming hammering that Labour will endure is probably going to be the catalyst for either a successful challenge or a final split between the populist far left in Labour and the urban Blairites.

arethuza 10y ago

Pretty much, Corbyn has gathered a lot of grass roots support but will fail to appeal to the wider electorate. I suspect there is a good chance that Labour in the rest of the UK will implode after this election in the same way that it has collapsed in Scotland (although I'm not clear who voters would transfer their loyalties to as they have here in Scotland where the SNP now dominates).

gideonparanoid 10y ago
A lot of that grass roots support is young & as a result has much less weight for voting, unfortunately.
- gtirloni 10y ago
  Unless older people's votes get counted twice, how does the young have less weight for voting? As an outsider, the news that got to me was that older people simply showed up to vote (and others didn't).
  - gideonparanoid 10y ago
    I'm thinking of the fact that there's far more 'older' people, young people are less likely to vote & young people also captures people below the voting age.
  - barrkel 10y ago
    Voting probability is lower.
  - d4rti 10y ago
    There are more older people in total.
  - awjr 10y ago
    As you get older you get more politically active. I'm guessing the retired have more time on their hands. The young just aren't too bothered. Have a feeling, with Brexit, the biggest losers are the young and I hope that there is at least some semblance that they can do something about it this time.

Silhouette 10y ago

The Labour Party establishment have tried to dethrone Corbyn before and failed. He's an odd case. He commands a lot of influence among Labour members and to some extent the unions (who have significant ties to and influence on the Labour Party here). This makes him more-or-less untouchable as party leader. However, he's loathed by most of the party's current MPs, who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time. And he's not particularly popular among the general public outside the traditional Labour voters, which is why he's going to be a liability. The irony of the snap election, if it does happen, is that it will be an opportunity for Corbyn to clear out the disloyal backstabbers in the Commons and replace them with more traditional Labour MPs, which is probably why he seems to have said previously that he'd support calls for a snap election. On the other hand, he would probably lose so many MPs altogether that his party would become almost irrelevant in the next Parliament, much as the Lib Dems did last time. A somewhat ironic but apparently quite plausible outcome to all the political manoeuvres is that Corbyn says Labour will support the snap election, almost all of his MPs openly rebel, the election consequently doesn't achieve the 2/3 support needed in the Commons and so doesn't happen, May is weakened and probably steps down as a result, and Corbyn is also so weakened that he finally goes, thus making the two party leaders who were playing the political games the major victims of those games. We live in interesting times, literally and perhaps euphemistically as well. [Edit: Added a missing bit. Thanks, gpvos.]

gedankespiel 10y ago
>who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time I daresay that it's them who are making the party a liability. They've made the Labour Party seem completely ridiculous - and that's not Corbyn's fault.
arethuza 10y ago
"almost all of his MPs openly rebel" No wonder - I suspect a lot of them will be out of a job soon.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  But not for at least three years unless there is an early election...

mcjiggerlog 10y ago

There is zero chance of that happening before the election, yes. The only major pro-EU voice in parliament now (discounting regional parties) is Lib Dems.

arethuza 10y ago
Worth noting that the largest "regional" party, the SNP, has 54 MPs which is six times the 9 MPs that the Lib Dems have.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  And they're an actual opposition too
- TorKlingberg 10y ago
  Yes, but their upside is limited. They already have almost all Scottish seats, and they are not going to win elsewhere.
  - youngtaff 10y ago
    Our biggest hope is the SNP put candidates into England

deadbunny 10y ago

Everyone is always describing Corbyn as some far left nutjob, look at Europe or Scandinavia and you'll see he is actually the moderate left. Don't let the continued hatchet job by every media outlet in the country fool you.

Keronk 10y ago
Corbyn isn't in Europe or Scandanavia, I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn. Maybe you should ask yourself why in your lifetime a Labour leader hasn't won an election without dominating the centre of the political spectrum. Corbyn is too far left to win a general election the press have nothing to do with it, Teresa May is becoming increasing right wing and he lacks the common sense to vacate that position.
- deadbunny 10y ago
  > I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn. Nice assumptions there, shame they are incorrect other than my location. My point is that Corbyn is a bog standard left of centre politician in a left of centre party. If you honestly believe the press have nothing to do with the image of him being a left wing loon then I honestly don't think you're paying attention. He is continually painted as a terrorist sympathizer for his views that talking and treating others as humans actually gets shit resolved (you know, diplomacy), he's quoted out of context time and again to paint him into the fringe left rather than where he actually stands. That said, I agree that he's not the right candidate to get elected in the UK and he has been particularly ineffectual at providing any meaningful opposition to either Cameron or May both of whom I think Thatcher would think was a bit extreme.