14 ms·

Actually this is just good business for the Tories, and I've long expected it. The opposition is in disarray under Corbyn, and our prime minister has never won

Actually this is just good business for the Tories, and I've long expected it. The opposition is in disarray under Corbyn, and our prime minister has never won an election. This is as easy a victory as Theresa May will ever be able to bank on, and legitimises her leadership in the eyes of a large section of the public. She can also claim (maybe rightly so) that she has the undisputed majority support of the public for whatever terms she gets for a hard Brexit from the EU. In short; we're screwed.

wsc981 10y ago
I think the UK will be fine, post Brexit, as the UK is a very important trading partner for The Netherlands, Denmark & Ireland. These countries don't want harsh punishments for the UK (as Brussels seems intent on) and they want little trade barriers: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc-members-alliance-Brussels-secure-post-Brexit-trade-deal http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc...
- hazza1 10y ago
  You can't use the Express as a source, it's not a creditable newspaper and has it's own agenda here.
  - sir_throwaway 10y ago
    Yet the main article is from The Guardian...
    - hazza1 10y ago
      I'm not debating the fact that a general election has been called as the Guardian has reported.
    - willyt 10y ago
      Your comment is over simplistic because many reputable news outlets are reporting the hard observable fact that a general election has been called. Therefore the fact that the Guardian is a source for this is irrelevant. A single newspaper, The Daily Express is reporting comments made by a single Danish MEP, who could be from some mad fringe party for all we know, as if this is the official policy of four nation states. Therefore the Express article is mostly speculation based on a secondary source of information; a person whose personal agenda and relation to the Danish Government's official foreign policy is unknown.
      - mvindahl 10y ago
        Dane here. According to the article he is from the Danish People's Party. Although pretty right wing on issues like immigration, they're not exactly a fringe party these days but also they have never been a governing party. As for the official foreign policy, I think our government is sorry to see the UK leave ship as we have often had similar objectives when it came to EU politics. I don't think there is any desire to "punish" Britain as far as the Danish government is concerned.
  - vixen99 10y ago
    its own agenda.
  - wsc981 10y ago
    Well, Reuters also had an article on the meeting and the goals, if you prefer that source: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-diplomacy-idUSKBN17K1AI?il=0 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-diplomacy-id...
    - pmyteh 10y ago
      Much, thanks.
- interfixus 10y ago
  Of course the UK will be fine. The doomsday rhetoric is completely out of hand. The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years. And Europa will be, if not fine then at least better for it.
  - Kurtz79 10y ago
    "The doomsday rhetoric is completely out of hand." "The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years." No comment.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      interfixus' point is that the EU crumbling is a good thing for everyone involved, hence not a "doomsday".
      - Oletros 10y ago
        interfixus point is that the EU will crumble
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - interfixus 10y ago
        Exactly, yes, thank you. I assumed that was obvious, but I can see how it wouldn't necessarily be to someone coming from another direction.
  - grey-area 10y ago
    Watch out what you wish for. If the eu falls there will be huge economic suffering, it will mean almost certain war, and probably an invasion by Putin in the east after he takes Ukraine.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    "The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years." The EU will probably strengthen after brexit.
- aembleton 10y ago
  Doesn't really matter what three countries want. You'd need to get agreement from 27 countries. That is why trade deals are so hard for the EU to do. I really doubt we'll be getting a deal in the next two years. A more likely outcome is a French Exit or the collapse of a large Italian bank causing the end of the EU as we know it. Then we can make trade deals with individual countries.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    If this was going to happen, it would have happened during the peak of "Grexit" talk about Greece. Greece were doing incredibly badly out of the EU at that point, far worse than the UK could ever be said to be experiencing, and decided not to leave. That's why I don't think further fragmentation is likely, and the banking system has been shored up. French exit would kill the EU, but I think we'll see another narrow defeat for Le Pen. But I could be wrong there, it's volatile.
- rbehrends 10y ago
  I've never really seen the "punishment" rhetoric outside the British press; among the EU-27, the assumption seems to be that the consequences of a hard Brexit will be bad enough. The problem with a hard Brexit is all the non-tariff barriers [1] that will kick in. This is unavoidable: lack of tariffs was never that big a benefit of EU membership, because the EU has few tariffs as is and one of the lowest weighted mean tariff rates in the world. The benefit of the single market is that British products and services are basically treated just like domestic products and services in all the other member states for regulatory purposes. This will force Britain to largely keep regulations for products that are being exported in line with the EU's (as its biggest export market), while still adding costs [2]. Nobody seriously believes that the British economy will implode as a result; what it will do is retard economic growth somewhat (economists argue how much) and possibly create structural problems in sectors that are heavily reliant on exports. P.S.: I would also not rely on the Daily Express. It's probably one of the worst British tabloids. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-tariff_barriers_to_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-tariff_barriers_to_trade [2] https://www.ft.com/content/69202760-c3a2-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856354 https://www.ft.com/content/69202760-c3a2-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856...
  - makomk 10y ago
    Probably because the EU 27's rhetorical tactic is to claim all the ways they come up with to punish Britain over Brexit are simply inevitable consequences of Brexit, regardless how obvious it is that they're just things they've pulled out their ass for naked political reasons. For example, their bizarre interpretation of a rule forbidding countries from negotiating trade agreements unilaterally to mean the EU couldn't negotiate its post-exit trade agreements with the UK until the UK actually exited (hurting members with close trading ties to the UK), or cynical insistence Spain must get a veto on the deal because of the Gibraltar border but Ireland doesn't get one.
    - pjc50 10y ago
      All the EU27 get a veto on the deal. Spain just got a sentence inserted in the official reply.
- MatthiasP 10y ago
  The desire for a trade war with the UK is not exactly high on the continent, especially considering the debt crisis is still looming over Brussels. The UK will probably get a deal like Norway and will be better off without Brussels. But then many other EU countries will ask: Who actually needs the political union?
  - barrkel 10y ago
    The UK won't get a deal like Norway because UK politics prohibits it; it's not politically acceptable to continue to send billions to the EU after leaving. If UK were to contribute as much to the EU as Norway per capita, it would be over 2 billion EUR per year.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      They also have higher per-capita immigration from the EU, which is apparently also a political no-no for the UK.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    "Brussels" is not in debt. The monetary union has serious problems, but not all the countries in the EU are part of it.
    - makomk 10y ago
      Most of the countries in the EU are in the Eurozone too. The UK is pretty much the last major economy in the EU that's outside the Eurozone, and one of only two EU members that are not in theory obliged to join it as soon as they're able to.
  - rbehrends 10y ago
    > The UK will probably get a deal like Norway and will be better off without Brussels. EEA membership (which is what Norway has) includes: * Freedom of movement. * Contributions to the EU budget. * Implementing most EU regulations without actually having representation in the bodies that decide them. This would not go over well with Leave voters and would basically be a worse deal for the UK than remaining in the EU would be.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Define "fine". It's a bit like pointing out to environmentalists that the earth itself will be fine; it's true but glossing over a huge amount of detail of what might actually be lost. Possibly the most accurate prophecy I've read on twitter is that we'll gradually forget that people used to migrate to the UK from Ireland for economic reasons, as it becomes the other way round. The UK is likely to move smoothly from importing workers to young people going abroad (with greater difficulty) in order to find work. And the Home Office net migration figures will declare this a success. Brexit won't demolish the UK, but it will cripple growth and cut us out of a whole bunch of global opportunities. (Unless the Home Office goes to kick out the 3m Europeans already here, in which case we're back to tanks-in-the-streets apocalypses)
beaconstudios 10y ago
who's "we"? I'd be pretty happy about an election legitimising May's leadership. If labour wants to become more competitive they should stop nominating far-left leaders.
- malza 10y ago
  Labour's problem is they are basically two parties, the metropolitan socialists (remain) and working classes (leave). I doubt any leader would be able to fight this upcoming general election - it's a huge mess for them.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    this is the funny thing - Labour has bent over more and more to gain the backing of middle-class wannabe socialists to the point where it has alienated its core constituency. There's not really a good party for the working class any more.
  - grey-area 10y ago
    It's not quite as simple as that. Much of the country is prosperous but still voted leave, many working class people live in cities and voted remain, and it's quite hard to define working class now in a country which gets ~10% of its GDP from industry and most of it from services. There's stronger signs of a generational split, and a rural/city split than a simple rich poor split and of course each area has substantial numbers of voters who think differently. Lots of rich people voted for Brexit, lots of people who are not nationalists voted for Brexit lots of people who are not particularly racist voted for Brexit, etc. The reasons are varied. I disagree with Brexit and think it will end in disaster (esp. for labour as you point out), but the view above is unduly reductive. Unfortunately such a nuanced reality doesn't fit into a sound bite and people prefer to neatly put their opponents in a reductive box, so here we are talking about cities vs countryside and rich vs poor.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      > Unfortunately such a nuanced reality doesn't fit into a sound byte and people prefer to neatly put their opponents in a reductive box > lots of people who are not nationalists voted for Brexit lots of people who are not particularly racist voted for Brexit Sounds like you're doing the exact same thing. Are the majority of Brexit voters racist and nationalist (assuming you consider nationalism a negative)?
rb1 10y ago
^^ this. There's not too much more to it than just this.
tankenmate 10y ago
Indeed, she is shoring up the Tory vote in the commons. At the moment they have a thin majority and just a small number of backbenchers can run amok to prevent or derail government / ministerial law making agenda. Most people will see this as the party political move that it is. Tory voters will love this, other parties much less so. As an aside, Northern Ireland will probably join in and have another assembly election on the same date. I wonder if Scotland will join in too?
- headmelted 10y ago
  Have you seen how much it rains here? If I'm going out to vote in another assembly election I expect at LEAST a full five-piece with a free coffee on arrival. ... Alright I'll go. Again. Because I'm a mug.
Kurtz79 10y ago
I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU voters ?
- headmelted 10y ago
  In the current timeframe, yes. The only person who's trying to do that right now and is at all visible to the public eye is Tony Blair.. and there's just no way that's going to go over with the public.
  - RugnirViking 10y ago
    The thought of Tony Blair attempting this in vain is amusing to me. If it was literally anyone else...
- evgen 10y ago
  Nothing will happen in the short term, but the upcoming hammering that Labour will endure is probably going to be the catalyst for either a successful challenge or a final split between the populist far left in Labour and the urban Blairites.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Pretty much, Corbyn has gathered a lot of grass roots support but will fail to appeal to the wider electorate. I suspect there is a good chance that Labour in the rest of the UK will implode after this election in the same way that it has collapsed in Scotland (although I'm not clear who voters would transfer their loyalties to as they have here in Scotland where the SNP now dominates).
  - gideonparanoid 10y ago
    A lot of that grass roots support is young & as a result has much less weight for voting, unfortunately.
    - 10y ago
louisswiss 10y ago
It also negates the 'Theresa doesn't have a mandate, no one voted for her' argument.
- daemin 10y ago
  This is similar to the election in Australia just after Julia Gillard took power from Kevin Rudd. Basically to quash the people complaining that she didn't get voted in and just usurped power instead.
- nthcolumn 10y ago
  It is also a move to counter the very real threat from SNP.
  - Keronk 10y ago
    I don't see how it does that, In effect it makes them stronger by giving them a general election she gives them an indyref. All her arguments against one fall away.
    - nthcolumn 10y ago
      Yes exactly, it is IndyRef lite! She is hoping they lose, thereby negating calls for IndyRef proper. I din't say it wasn't going to backfire spectacularly. I think the whole thing is a huge mistake. Brexit is happening, Article 50 has been triggered and is irrevocable. Unlike the rest of UK, Scotland still appear to have a choice. I can't see how the Tories ever thought this was going to end well.
tehwalrus 10y ago
Vote Lib Dem. Seriously. I am a candidate in very north london, we're all organised for this possibility.
- bogle 10y ago
  Yeah, 'cause you did such a sterling job last time?
  - popey456963 10y ago
    Considering how we're doing now? Yeah, I'm pretty cool with how they handled things.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Accacin 10y ago
    Yeah they did, in my eyes they did a great job stopping Tories doing too much damage. I'm also one who was affected by their tuition u-turn also but I decided to get over it.
    - tspiteri 10y ago
      And it is a bit ironic that New Labour introduced tuition fees, the Tories were the coalition partner that wanted to increase them, but it is the Lib Dems who caught all the flak.
      - bshimmin 10y ago
        It's understandable that they took a hammering over it: it was a tentpole pledge, they couldn't stick to it, and they then apologised for it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731
        tspiteri 10y ago
makomk 10y ago
It's also an incredibly cynical ploy that'll probably damage belief in democracy more than anything. It's not a vote on whether Brexit happens because she called it after she'd already irrevocably started the countdown on that by triggering Article 50. It's not a vote on how Brexit happens because, as far as I can tell, she's consistently refused to be specific about that and no real negotiation with the EU has happened yet. (Edit: and the Tories have confirmed this is their election strategy: https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/854329597793632257 https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/854329597793632257) It lets May claim a democratic mandate for whatever she wants to do without giving voters any insight or say in what that is.
- tomp 10y ago
  (1) It's not whether to Brexit or not because that has already been democratically decided by the voters. (2) If there are any counterproposals (i.e. another party saying "we'll do Brexit this way") then she'll have to clarify her strategy. If not, it doesn't matter anyways (the democratical choice of a single option is that single option). The only problem I see with this is that the election is only 6 weeks away, too little for any credible new stances to form. Beneficial for her & Tories, but undemocratic and bad for the country.
  - makomk 10y ago
    If there are any counterproposals, they can just attack them as unrealistic, harmful to the UK, etc without offering any proposal of their own.
junto 10y ago
It is a smart move. The next election was due in 2020. By doing this she gives herself a full five years to hammer out all of the deals required to "successfully" Brexit. With the opposition in disarray, they stand a good chance to securing more seats. This helps them to prevent other parties blocking the things she needs to pass in order to start revoking EU laws, which they have already said they will copy verbatim to start with into UK law, and then slowly rewrite the bits out they don't want. EHRC being one of their key targets.
flannell 10y ago
I don't get the constant "we're screwed" rhetoric. Why do you think this?

wsc981 10y ago

I think the UK will be fine, post Brexit, as the UK is a very important trading partner for The Netherlands, Denmark & Ireland. These countries don't want harsh punishments for the UK (as Brussels seems intent on) and they want little trade barriers: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc-members-alliance-Brussels-secure-post-Brexit-trade-deal http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc...

hazza1 10y ago
You can't use the Express as a source, it's not a creditable newspaper and has it's own agenda here.
- sir_throwaway 10y ago
  Yet the main article is from The Guardian...
  - hazza1 10y ago
    I'm not debating the fact that a general election has been called as the Guardian has reported.
  - willyt 10y ago
    Your comment is over simplistic because many reputable news outlets are reporting the hard observable fact that a general election has been called. Therefore the fact that the Guardian is a source for this is irrelevant. A single newspaper, The Daily Express is reporting comments made by a single Danish MEP, who could be from some mad fringe party for all we know, as if this is the official policy of four nation states. Therefore the Express article is mostly speculation based on a secondary source of information; a person whose personal agenda and relation to the Danish Government's official foreign policy is unknown.
    - mvindahl 10y ago
      Dane here. According to the article he is from the Danish People's Party. Although pretty right wing on issues like immigration, they're not exactly a fringe party these days but also they have never been a governing party. As for the official foreign policy, I think our government is sorry to see the UK leave ship as we have often had similar objectives when it came to EU politics. I don't think there is any desire to "punish" Britain as far as the Danish government is concerned.
- vixen99 10y ago
  its own agenda.
- wsc981 10y ago
  Well, Reuters also had an article on the meeting and the goals, if you prefer that source: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-diplomacy-idUSKBN17K1AI?il=0 http://mobile.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-diplomacy-id...
  - pmyteh 10y ago
    Much, thanks.
interfixus 10y ago
Of course the UK will be fine. The doomsday rhetoric is completely out of hand. The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years. And Europa will be, if not fine then at least better for it.
- Kurtz79 10y ago
  "The doomsday rhetoric is completely out of hand." "The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years." No comment.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    interfixus' point is that the EU crumbling is a good thing for everyone involved, hence not a "doomsday".
    - Oletros 10y ago
      interfixus point is that the EU will crumble
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - interfixus 10y ago
      Exactly, yes, thank you. I assumed that was obvious, but I can see how it wouldn't necessarily be to someone coming from another direction.
- grey-area 10y ago
  Watch out what you wish for. If the eu falls there will be huge economic suffering, it will mean almost certain war, and probably an invasion by Putin in the east after he takes Ukraine.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  "The EU is going to fragment and crumble over the next ten years." The EU will probably strengthen after brexit.
aembleton 10y ago
Doesn't really matter what three countries want. You'd need to get agreement from 27 countries. That is why trade deals are so hard for the EU to do. I really doubt we'll be getting a deal in the next two years. A more likely outcome is a French Exit or the collapse of a large Italian bank causing the end of the EU as we know it. Then we can make trade deals with individual countries.
- pjc50 10y ago
  If this was going to happen, it would have happened during the peak of "Grexit" talk about Greece. Greece were doing incredibly badly out of the EU at that point, far worse than the UK could ever be said to be experiencing, and decided not to leave. That's why I don't think further fragmentation is likely, and the banking system has been shored up. French exit would kill the EU, but I think we'll see another narrow defeat for Le Pen. But I could be wrong there, it's volatile.
rbehrends 10y ago
I've never really seen the "punishment" rhetoric outside the British press; among the EU-27, the assumption seems to be that the consequences of a hard Brexit will be bad enough. The problem with a hard Brexit is all the non-tariff barriers [1] that will kick in. This is unavoidable: lack of tariffs was never that big a benefit of EU membership, because the EU has few tariffs as is and one of the lowest weighted mean tariff rates in the world. The benefit of the single market is that British products and services are basically treated just like domestic products and services in all the other member states for regulatory purposes. This will force Britain to largely keep regulations for products that are being exported in line with the EU's (as its biggest export market), while still adding costs [2]. Nobody seriously believes that the British economy will implode as a result; what it will do is retard economic growth somewhat (economists argue how much) and possibly create structural problems in sectors that are heavily reliant on exports. P.S.: I would also not rely on the Daily Express. It's probably one of the worst British tabloids. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-tariff_barriers_to_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-tariff_barriers_to_trade [2] https://www.ft.com/content/69202760-c3a2-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856354 https://www.ft.com/content/69202760-c3a2-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856...
- makomk 10y ago
  Probably because the EU 27's rhetorical tactic is to claim all the ways they come up with to punish Britain over Brexit are simply inevitable consequences of Brexit, regardless how obvious it is that they're just things they've pulled out their ass for naked political reasons. For example, their bizarre interpretation of a rule forbidding countries from negotiating trade agreements unilaterally to mean the EU couldn't negotiate its post-exit trade agreements with the UK until the UK actually exited (hurting members with close trading ties to the UK), or cynical insistence Spain must get a veto on the deal because of the Gibraltar border but Ireland doesn't get one.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    All the EU27 get a veto on the deal. Spain just got a sentence inserted in the official reply.
MatthiasP 10y ago
The desire for a trade war with the UK is not exactly high on the continent, especially considering the debt crisis is still looming over Brussels. The UK will probably get a deal like Norway and will be better off without Brussels. But then many other EU countries will ask: Who actually needs the political union?
- barrkel 10y ago
  The UK won't get a deal like Norway because UK politics prohibits it; it's not politically acceptable to continue to send billions to the EU after leaving. If UK were to contribute as much to the EU as Norway per capita, it would be over 2 billion EUR per year.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    They also have higher per-capita immigration from the EU, which is apparently also a political no-no for the UK.
- pjc50 10y ago
  "Brussels" is not in debt. The monetary union has serious problems, but not all the countries in the EU are part of it.
  - makomk 10y ago
    Most of the countries in the EU are in the Eurozone too. The UK is pretty much the last major economy in the EU that's outside the Eurozone, and one of only two EU members that are not in theory obliged to join it as soon as they're able to.
- rbehrends 10y ago
  > The UK will probably get a deal like Norway and will be better off without Brussels. EEA membership (which is what Norway has) includes: * Freedom of movement. * Contributions to the EU budget. * Implementing most EU regulations without actually having representation in the bodies that decide them. This would not go over well with Leave voters and would basically be a worse deal for the UK than remaining in the EU would be.
pjc50 10y ago
Define "fine". It's a bit like pointing out to environmentalists that the earth itself will be fine; it's true but glossing over a huge amount of detail of what might actually be lost. Possibly the most accurate prophecy I've read on twitter is that we'll gradually forget that people used to migrate to the UK from Ireland for economic reasons, as it becomes the other way round. The UK is likely to move smoothly from importing workers to young people going abroad (with greater difficulty) in order to find work. And the Home Office net migration figures will declare this a success. Brexit won't demolish the UK, but it will cripple growth and cut us out of a whole bunch of global opportunities. (Unless the Home Office goes to kick out the 3m Europeans already here, in which case we're back to tanks-in-the-streets apocalypses)

beaconstudios 10y ago

who's "we"? I'd be pretty happy about an election legitimising May's leadership. If labour wants to become more competitive they should stop nominating far-left leaders.

malza 10y ago
Labour's problem is they are basically two parties, the metropolitan socialists (remain) and working classes (leave). I doubt any leader would be able to fight this upcoming general election - it's a huge mess for them.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  this is the funny thing - Labour has bent over more and more to gain the backing of middle-class wannabe socialists to the point where it has alienated its core constituency. There's not really a good party for the working class any more.
- grey-area 10y ago
  It's not quite as simple as that. Much of the country is prosperous but still voted leave, many working class people live in cities and voted remain, and it's quite hard to define working class now in a country which gets ~10% of its GDP from industry and most of it from services. There's stronger signs of a generational split, and a rural/city split than a simple rich poor split and of course each area has substantial numbers of voters who think differently. Lots of rich people voted for Brexit, lots of people who are not nationalists voted for Brexit lots of people who are not particularly racist voted for Brexit, etc. The reasons are varied. I disagree with Brexit and think it will end in disaster (esp. for labour as you point out), but the view above is unduly reductive. Unfortunately such a nuanced reality doesn't fit into a sound bite and people prefer to neatly put their opponents in a reductive box, so here we are talking about cities vs countryside and rich vs poor.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    > Unfortunately such a nuanced reality doesn't fit into a sound byte and people prefer to neatly put their opponents in a reductive box > lots of people who are not nationalists voted for Brexit lots of people who are not particularly racist voted for Brexit Sounds like you're doing the exact same thing. Are the majority of Brexit voters racist and nationalist (assuming you consider nationalism a negative)?

rb1 10y ago

^^ this. There's not too much more to it than just this.

tankenmate 10y ago

Indeed, she is shoring up the Tory vote in the commons. At the moment they have a thin majority and just a small number of backbenchers can run amok to prevent or derail government / ministerial law making agenda. Most people will see this as the party political move that it is. Tory voters will love this, other parties much less so. As an aside, Northern Ireland will probably join in and have another assembly election on the same date. I wonder if Scotland will join in too?

headmelted 10y ago
Have you seen how much it rains here? If I'm going out to vote in another assembly election I expect at LEAST a full five-piece with a free coffee on arrival. ... Alright I'll go. Again. Because I'm a mug.

Kurtz79 10y ago

I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU voters ?

headmelted 10y ago
In the current timeframe, yes. The only person who's trying to do that right now and is at all visible to the public eye is Tony Blair.. and there's just no way that's going to go over with the public.
- RugnirViking 10y ago
  The thought of Tony Blair attempting this in vain is amusing to me. If it was literally anyone else...
evgen 10y ago
Nothing will happen in the short term, but the upcoming hammering that Labour will endure is probably going to be the catalyst for either a successful challenge or a final split between the populist far left in Labour and the urban Blairites.
arethuza 10y ago
Pretty much, Corbyn has gathered a lot of grass roots support but will fail to appeal to the wider electorate. I suspect there is a good chance that Labour in the rest of the UK will implode after this election in the same way that it has collapsed in Scotland (although I'm not clear who voters would transfer their loyalties to as they have here in Scotland where the SNP now dominates).
- gideonparanoid 10y ago
  A lot of that grass roots support is young & as a result has much less weight for voting, unfortunately.
  - 10y ago

louisswiss 10y ago

It also negates the 'Theresa doesn't have a mandate, no one voted for her' argument.

daemin 10y ago
This is similar to the election in Australia just after Julia Gillard took power from Kevin Rudd. Basically to quash the people complaining that she didn't get voted in and just usurped power instead.
nthcolumn 10y ago
It is also a move to counter the very real threat from SNP.
- Keronk 10y ago
  I don't see how it does that, In effect it makes them stronger by giving them a general election she gives them an indyref. All her arguments against one fall away.
  - nthcolumn 10y ago
    Yes exactly, it is IndyRef lite! She is hoping they lose, thereby negating calls for IndyRef proper. I din't say it wasn't going to backfire spectacularly. I think the whole thing is a huge mistake. Brexit is happening, Article 50 has been triggered and is irrevocable. Unlike the rest of UK, Scotland still appear to have a choice. I can't see how the Tories ever thought this was going to end well.

tehwalrus 10y ago

Vote Lib Dem. Seriously. I am a candidate in very north london, we're all organised for this possibility.

bogle 10y ago
Yeah, 'cause you did such a sterling job last time?
- popey456963 10y ago
  Considering how we're doing now? Yeah, I'm pretty cool with how they handled things.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Accacin 10y ago
  Yeah they did, in my eyes they did a great job stopping Tories doing too much damage. I'm also one who was affected by their tuition u-turn also but I decided to get over it.
  - tspiteri 10y ago
    And it is a bit ironic that New Labour introduced tuition fees, the Tories were the coalition partner that wanted to increase them, but it is the Lib Dems who caught all the flak.
    - bshimmin 10y ago
      It's understandable that they took a hammering over it: it was a tentpole pledge, they couldn't stick to it, and they then apologised for it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19646731
      - tspiteri 10y ago

makomk 10y ago

It's also an incredibly cynical ploy that'll probably damage belief in democracy more than anything. It's not a vote on whether Brexit happens because she called it after she'd already irrevocably started the countdown on that by triggering Article 50. It's not a vote on how Brexit happens because, as far as I can tell, she's consistently refused to be specific about that and no real negotiation with the EU has happened yet. (Edit: and the Tories have confirmed this is their election strategy: https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/854329597793632257 https://twitter.com/DMcCaffreySKY/status/854329597793632257) It lets May claim a democratic mandate for whatever she wants to do without giving voters any insight or say in what that is.

tomp 10y ago
(1) It's not whether to Brexit or not because that has already been democratically decided by the voters. (2) If there are any counterproposals (i.e. another party saying "we'll do Brexit this way") then she'll have to clarify her strategy. If not, it doesn't matter anyways (the democratical choice of a single option is that single option). The only problem I see with this is that the election is only 6 weeks away, too little for any credible new stances to form. Beneficial for her & Tories, but undemocratic and bad for the country.
- makomk 10y ago
  If there are any counterproposals, they can just attack them as unrealistic, harmful to the UK, etc without offering any proposal of their own.

junto 10y ago

It is a smart move. The next election was due in 2020. By doing this she gives herself a full five years to hammer out all of the deals required to "successfully" Brexit. With the opposition in disarray, they stand a good chance to securing more seats. This helps them to prevent other parties blocking the things she needs to pass in order to start revoking EU laws, which they have already said they will copy verbatim to start with into UK law, and then slowly rewrite the bits out they don't want. EHRC being one of their key targets.

flannell 10y ago

I don't get the constant "we're screwed" rhetoric. Why do you think this?