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Ask HN: UK Startups and VATMOSS

3 points by graystevens 9y ago

I'm working on a startup that will be a SaaS and I'm hoping to incorporate it here in the UK. However, the billing side of things is something I have been heavily debating in my head the last few days, so I figured I'd ask how some others have gone about it. My SaaS will be B2B, and so far I figure I have a number of options: Write it all myself with Stripe or similar as a backend, or alternatively I use some external services which have popped up specifically to deal with EU VAT/tax with regards to invoicing. There is also scope to just outsource it all and go with Chargebee or similar. How are other UK based B2B startups dealing with this?

polimorfico 9y ago
I built Quaderno (https://quaderno.io https://quaderno.io) to deal with the VATMOSS nightmare. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help.
dawson 9y ago
> My SaaS will be B2B VAT MOSS only applies to B2C sales.
- jakobegger 9y ago
  Theoretically yes, but in practice many "business" customers don't have a VAT-ID (eg. businesses with less than 20000€ revenue, universities, non-profits). If you want to sell to them, you need to charge VAT.
  - graystevens 9y ago
    Thank you jakobegger, very good point, as I'm likely to be interacting with these smaller startups earlier on in my launch.
ig1 9y ago
You don't need to worry about it if you're B2B. Also you only need to registered for VAT once you hit 85k in revenue, so it might be worth considering if it'd be worth you delaying until that point.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  It can be advantageous to register before then if you pay expenses with VAT added.
brudgers 9y ago
[random advice from the internet] I'm going to parrot my interpretation of patio11's [1] advice since I don't have direct experience: Pay for the service and focus on building a product people will pay for. That's what those services that handle VAT did and why you are considering using them. What Patio11 doesn't say is if you build it, you have to maintain it and maintaining it means keeping up with changes to tax law and tax forms and tax policy. Odds are you're not a tax expert (if you were, you'd probably be standing up a tax calculation service like the one's you've found). http://www.kalzumeus.com/archive/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/archive/ [1]: AKA Patrick Mackenzie. My understanding is that he often chats with people who contact him.
- graystevens 9y ago
  Sage advice, and when combined with the reply below from jakobegger, it makes sense to outsource this, as it won't be strictly B2B. Think that answers that!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
I use Avangate who handle tax issues for me, they do cost a little more than Stripe but it makes life a lot easier only having to bill one client each month.

3 points by graystevens 9y ago

polimorfico 9y ago

I built Quaderno (https://quaderno.io https://quaderno.io) to deal with the VATMOSS nightmare. Let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help.

dawson 9y ago

> My SaaS will be B2B VAT MOSS only applies to B2C sales.

jakobegger 9y ago
Theoretically yes, but in practice many "business" customers don't have a VAT-ID (eg. businesses with less than 20000€ revenue, universities, non-profits). If you want to sell to them, you need to charge VAT.
- graystevens 9y ago
  Thank you jakobegger, very good point, as I'm likely to be interacting with these smaller startups earlier on in my launch.

ig1 9y ago

You don't need to worry about it if you're B2B. Also you only need to registered for VAT once you hit 85k in revenue, so it might be worth considering if it'd be worth you delaying until that point.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
It can be advantageous to register before then if you pay expenses with VAT added.

brudgers 9y ago

[random advice from the internet] I'm going to parrot my interpretation of patio11's [1] advice since I don't have direct experience: Pay for the service and focus on building a product people will pay for. That's what those services that handle VAT did and why you are considering using them. What Patio11 doesn't say is if you build it, you have to maintain it and maintaining it means keeping up with changes to tax law and tax forms and tax policy. Odds are you're not a tax expert (if you were, you'd probably be standing up a tax calculation service like the one's you've found). http://www.kalzumeus.com/archive/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/archive/ [1]: AKA Patrick Mackenzie. My understanding is that he often chats with people who contact him.

graystevens 9y ago
Sage advice, and when combined with the reply below from jakobegger, it makes sense to outsource this, as it won't be strictly B2B. Think that answers that!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

tonyedgecombe 9y ago

I use Avangate who handle tax issues for me, they do cost a little more than Stripe but it makes life a lot easier only having to bill one client each month.