4 ms·

I would distinguish between PhD and IT work when it comes to 457 visas. In practice 457, within the IT field at least, has rarely served its intended purpose an

I would distinguish between PhD and IT work when it comes to 457 visas. In practice 457, within the IT field at least, has rarely served its intended purpose and often been misused. Likewise it has deterred many locals from considering IT as an area of study. On the other hand PhD applicants are much closer to the intended purposes of the 457. For example research cannot be developed in the same manner and quantity as IT.

ripuarian 9y ago
If we work hard enough, in IT, we automate away your particular job, whatever that may be that you are doing with your PhD. So, a program replaces you. So, you don't get paid out your salary and you join the ranks of starving PhDs. Furthermore, we do this every day, as a matter of routine. We make truck loads of money automating away jobs like yours. So, do not draw our attention to your field, because we may re-prioritize the list of jobs to be destroyed, and pick your job from the list, first.
- barakathecat 9y ago
  This is unnecessarily hostile and does not address the parent.
- joncampbelldev 9y ago
  Of all jobs to be automated any time soon I think PhD level researchers should feel pretty safe and secure.
  - tzakrajs 9y ago
    My guess is it was sarcasm. What a funny notion it was.
    - joncampbelldev 9y ago
      Given their comment history, it's either not sarcasm or they need to find a new joke.
viraptor 9y ago
> Likewise it has deterred many locals from considering IT as an area of study. That's a bold statement. Have you got some good source? I'm having a problem imagining a statistically relevant number of people saying "I'm interested in pursuing one of the skills marked by the government as experiencing national shortage, (for years!) but I won't because immigrants will take those positions instead"
- empressplay 9y ago
  457 visa workers have driven down salary expectations for entry-level development jobs, thus students have began to shy away from computer science as a field of study (since there are plenty of other fields that pay more)
- sengork 9y ago
  Based on my own anecdotal observations within IT, few examples: - Relative size of CS departments (enrolments) and how standalone they are as a faculty now vs 10-15 years ago - Observations of how many parents who work in IT recommend to their kids to pursue alternative fields of study Statistically I am not sure how this fits in with other non-IT fields. Personally I would love to see the points above greatly improved upon as computers are here to stay, so having self-sufficiency and cross-generational (family) expertise would be very complementary and competitive.
valuearb 9y ago
Struggling to understand why any country would not want more smart people, whether scientists or IT. On average I would expect anyone willing to sacrifice by leaving friends and family to move part way across he world in the diligent search for opportunity would be an asset to their new country.
- Veratyr 9y ago
  Such a person would be an asset and if there were an infinite supply of jobs to employ such people in, we wouldn't need to restrict immigration nearly as much. Every new skilled person we get would contribute to and grow our economy. However we don't have an infinite supply of jobs and every job taken by a skilled person from another country could have been taken by a skilled person from within our own country, had they developed the skill. It also reduces demand for those jobs, which reduces the motivation for people within the country to train themselves to perform it in the future and increases our dependence on immigration. My argument isn't that immigration is bad, I'm an immigrant myself (Australia -> US) but it's definitely a trade off and needs to be controlled carefully.

ripuarian 9y ago

If we work hard enough, in IT, we automate away your particular job, whatever that may be that you are doing with your PhD. So, a program replaces you. So, you don't get paid out your salary and you join the ranks of starving PhDs. Furthermore, we do this every day, as a matter of routine. We make truck loads of money automating away jobs like yours. So, do not draw our attention to your field, because we may re-prioritize the list of jobs to be destroyed, and pick your job from the list, first.

barakathecat 9y ago
This is unnecessarily hostile and does not address the parent.
joncampbelldev 9y ago
Of all jobs to be automated any time soon I think PhD level researchers should feel pretty safe and secure.
- tzakrajs 9y ago
  My guess is it was sarcasm. What a funny notion it was.
  - joncampbelldev 9y ago
    Given their comment history, it's either not sarcasm or they need to find a new joke.

viraptor 9y ago

> Likewise it has deterred many locals from considering IT as an area of study. That's a bold statement. Have you got some good source? I'm having a problem imagining a statistically relevant number of people saying "I'm interested in pursuing one of the skills marked by the government as experiencing national shortage, (for years!) but I won't because immigrants will take those positions instead"

empressplay 9y ago
457 visa workers have driven down salary expectations for entry-level development jobs, thus students have began to shy away from computer science as a field of study (since there are plenty of other fields that pay more)
sengork 9y ago
Based on my own anecdotal observations within IT, few examples: - Relative size of CS departments (enrolments) and how standalone they are as a faculty now vs 10-15 years ago - Observations of how many parents who work in IT recommend to their kids to pursue alternative fields of study Statistically I am not sure how this fits in with other non-IT fields. Personally I would love to see the points above greatly improved upon as computers are here to stay, so having self-sufficiency and cross-generational (family) expertise would be very complementary and competitive.

valuearb 9y ago

Struggling to understand why any country would not want more smart people, whether scientists or IT. On average I would expect anyone willing to sacrifice by leaving friends and family to move part way across he world in the diligent search for opportunity would be an asset to their new country.

Veratyr 9y ago
Such a person would be an asset and if there were an infinite supply of jobs to employ such people in, we wouldn't need to restrict immigration nearly as much. Every new skilled person we get would contribute to and grow our economy. However we don't have an infinite supply of jobs and every job taken by a skilled person from another country could have been taken by a skilled person from within our own country, had they developed the skill. It also reduces demand for those jobs, which reduces the motivation for people within the country to train themselves to perform it in the future and increases our dependence on immigration. My argument isn't that immigration is bad, I'm an immigrant myself (Australia -> US) but it's definitely a trade off and needs to be controlled carefully.