4 ms·

The more I think about it, the more I come to the realization that academia isn't really a great place to be. Thankfully I'm at the start of my PhD and don't ha

by Cyph0n 10y ago

The more I think about it, the more I come to the realization that academia isn't really a great place to be. Thankfully I'm at the start of my PhD and don't have a MS (I can drop out with the MS), so I'm not exactly stuck for the long run. The thing is, I'd really like the option to "retire" as a college professor after a decade or so in industry. Having a PhD in hand from early on in my career will make that much, much easier. I still have a lot of thinking to do!

arcanus 10y ago
Don't let me totally discourage you! Far from it, just be sure to have realistic expectations. I absolutely loved my PhD work and I'm happy I did it. But I'm also happy I was careful to consider how this degree might help my employment down the line. Which it did. I've got an absolutely amazing research position that is well supported in the research arm of a BigCo now. I wouldn't expect that the pay is optimal versus other paths, but I'm well compensated, the work is stimulating and I'm highly autonomous. And as you implied, to is absolutely possible to come back to Academia after spending time in industry.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  You directly contradict your sibling post, which claims coming back is nearly impossible. Do you have many examples of people who have done this?
  - arcanus 10y ago
    Only anecdotally. I know that at Texas, in engineering (where I got my PhD) we had many, many professors with previous industry experience. I remembered thinking it was not nearly as terminal a decision as I had expected.
  - sndean 10y ago
    Just one example: My PhD advisor went directly to industry after their PhD, stayed there for 10 years, and then went back to academia. Six years later they had tenure. "I got lucky" was frequently said, though.
  - tnecniv 10y ago
    This is probably one of those things that varies a lot based on what your field is and how close to academia you stay while in industry. It's going to be a lot harder to come back to doing experimental physics if you spent 5 years as a software engineer.
    - eastWestMath 10y ago
      Right but someone who has a realistic chance at being hired as a professor won't be working as a commodity software engineer, they'll be in some sort of specialist/research role. Any of the job offers I've seriously considered leaving were to be a computer scientist.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    I did it. I went straight from my PhD to industry (actually my own startup) and then 5 years later I went into academia and tenure. I left academia in 2012 back to industry. This is the biological sciences (Molecular Biology / Microbiology). I should say I am the only person I have ever met in the biological sciences that has done this so it must be relatively rare.
- mattgreenrocks 10y ago
  I'm trying to break away from commodity software dev roles for research positions. Is a MS/PhD advisable? Is this a better shot than trying to get people's attention via a neat project (is that even a thing)? Currently I'm working toward getting into an MS program for my own curiosity.
  - arcanus 10y ago
    More than recommended, it is often required for research positions. Just be sure to pick a program that has a research topic that will be of interest. Easiest way to see if this is the case is by looking at previous students from that research group, and where they ended up.
    - mattgreenrocks 10y ago
      Yeah, I noticed. Hard to get them to notice you without it. Wished I'd started down this path sooner. Appreciate the advice.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
What's your field? In most hard science fields it's impossible to get a professorship if you take a break from academia. (Unless you were somewhere like Microsoft Research / IBM Research, which are basically parts of academia.)
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Electrical engineering. It happens, especially if you worked in R&D and continued to publish over the years. One of the professors currently teaching me spent 5 years at a startup and came back to his alma mater as an assistant professor. He's an expert on botnets and quite active, so that might be an exception haha!
  - tnecniv 10y ago
    During my undergrad I definitely had a handful of professors that came from stints at corporate research labs.
  - noobermin 10y ago
    Returning to alma mater and being an expert in a niche is an extreme exception, on the orders of magnitude down level.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      I am aware of that. I guess it was just a bad example. I'm sure you can find other less exceptional instances though.
- eastWestMath 10y ago
  That is, of course, a very silly cultural thing they'd be better off without. My supervisor spent a decade in industry before returning to academia, and he's a pure mathematician/logician.
Ultimatt 10y ago
You have a very low chance of getting to prof status in academia after a decade away post PhD. Only your academic contributions are considered.
JohnHammersley 10y ago
From my perspective as someone who's moved from academia (mathematics) to industry (driverless taxis) to startup founder (Overleaf), it felt to me like all of my transitions were one way only. Whilst I admit I'm not at the point of looking to go back into academia yet, I can't honestly see a path back. I've written more about this here if you're interested: http://johnhammersley.com/?p=381 http://johnhammersley.com/?p=381

by Cyph0n 10y ago

arcanus 10y ago

Don't let me totally discourage you! Far from it, just be sure to have realistic expectations. I absolutely loved my PhD work and I'm happy I did it. But I'm also happy I was careful to consider how this degree might help my employment down the line. Which it did. I've got an absolutely amazing research position that is well supported in the research arm of a BigCo now. I wouldn't expect that the pay is optimal versus other paths, but I'm well compensated, the work is stimulating and I'm highly autonomous. And as you implied, to is absolutely possible to come back to Academia after spending time in industry.

umanwizard 10y ago
You directly contradict your sibling post, which claims coming back is nearly impossible. Do you have many examples of people who have done this?
- arcanus 10y ago
  Only anecdotally. I know that at Texas, in engineering (where I got my PhD) we had many, many professors with previous industry experience. I remembered thinking it was not nearly as terminal a decision as I had expected.
- sndean 10y ago
  Just one example: My PhD advisor went directly to industry after their PhD, stayed there for 10 years, and then went back to academia. Six years later they had tenure. "I got lucky" was frequently said, though.
- tnecniv 10y ago
  This is probably one of those things that varies a lot based on what your field is and how close to academia you stay while in industry. It's going to be a lot harder to come back to doing experimental physics if you spent 5 years as a software engineer.
  - eastWestMath 10y ago
    Right but someone who has a realistic chance at being hired as a professor won't be working as a commodity software engineer, they'll be in some sort of specialist/research role. Any of the job offers I've seriously considered leaving were to be a computer scientist.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  I did it. I went straight from my PhD to industry (actually my own startup) and then 5 years later I went into academia and tenure. I left academia in 2012 back to industry. This is the biological sciences (Molecular Biology / Microbiology). I should say I am the only person I have ever met in the biological sciences that has done this so it must be relatively rare.
mattgreenrocks 10y ago
I'm trying to break away from commodity software dev roles for research positions. Is a MS/PhD advisable? Is this a better shot than trying to get people's attention via a neat project (is that even a thing)? Currently I'm working toward getting into an MS program for my own curiosity.
- arcanus 10y ago
  More than recommended, it is often required for research positions. Just be sure to pick a program that has a research topic that will be of interest. Easiest way to see if this is the case is by looking at previous students from that research group, and where they ended up.
  - mattgreenrocks 10y ago
    Yeah, I noticed. Hard to get them to notice you without it. Wished I'd started down this path sooner. Appreciate the advice.

maverick_iceman 10y ago

What's your field? In most hard science fields it's impossible to get a professorship if you take a break from academia. (Unless you were somewhere like Microsoft Research / IBM Research, which are basically parts of academia.)

Cyph0n 10y ago
Electrical engineering. It happens, especially if you worked in R&D and continued to publish over the years. One of the professors currently teaching me spent 5 years at a startup and came back to his alma mater as an assistant professor. He's an expert on botnets and quite active, so that might be an exception haha!
- tnecniv 10y ago
  During my undergrad I definitely had a handful of professors that came from stints at corporate research labs.
- noobermin 10y ago
  Returning to alma mater and being an expert in a niche is an extreme exception, on the orders of magnitude down level.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I am aware of that. I guess it was just a bad example. I'm sure you can find other less exceptional instances though.
eastWestMath 10y ago
That is, of course, a very silly cultural thing they'd be better off without. My supervisor spent a decade in industry before returning to academia, and he's a pure mathematician/logician.

Ultimatt 10y ago

You have a very low chance of getting to prof status in academia after a decade away post PhD. Only your academic contributions are considered.

JohnHammersley 10y ago

From my perspective as someone who's moved from academia (mathematics) to industry (driverless taxis) to startup founder (Overleaf), it felt to me like all of my transitions were one way only. Whilst I admit I'm not at the point of looking to go back into academia yet, I can't honestly see a path back. I've written more about this here if you're interested: http://johnhammersley.com/?p=381 http://johnhammersley.com/?p=381