5 ms·

Maybe looking for the reason we sleep is the wrong way to look at it? What if being asleep is the default state for any organism? Sleeping require much less en

by Puts 9y ago

Maybe looking for the reason we sleep is the wrong way to look at it? What if being asleep is the default state for any organism? Sleeping require much less energy. The only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce. For any animal there is probably an optimal ratio between sleep and hunt/reproduction where sleep is the most favorable.

superasn 9y ago
That's quite an insightful comment. Reminds me of an article about sea squirts who literally eat their brain once they are settled and have no longer a use for moving [1] [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/choke/201207/how-humans-learn-lessons-the-sea-squirt https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/choke/201207/how-humans...
JimboOmega 9y ago
But sleeping makes you much more vulnerable to predation, and really doesn't save much more energy vs. quiet/restful wakefulness. Just think of how disoriented you are when something wakes you up in the middle of night - that's a definite biological cost if that thing is something threatening to you. And of course, never mind creatures that have gone as far as the 50/50 brain adaptation (IE Dolphins), they simply have to be at least partially awake all the time.
- ghthor 9y ago
  This could be why meditation is such a useful state for our brain to be in. A combination of wakeful, highly aware of surroundings, yet peace and calm enough for waste to be cleaned up.
smallgovt 9y ago
This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis. What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The fact is we naturally sleep sometimes and we're awake at other times. If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false. The (assumed) primary motive here is to find a way to sleep less. We already have ways to force wakefulness. We now need to find ways to mitigate negative side effects hence the research on various health functions sleep contributes towards.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". >What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics?
  - smallgovt 9y ago
    > The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics? That's a very reasonable definition. Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if <insert obviously true statement>" is not a constructive or insightful question. > A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if <insert obviously true statement>" is not a constructive or insightful question. Well, assuming it's true, it's not that "obvious". And even if it is obvious to e.g. a biologist, it's not at all obvious to a layperson. In fact it's so "not obvious" that you didn't even consider it valid when the parent said it (I merely clarified it further). >Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false. Why repeat that though? It's not as is somebody claimed it. What parent said (and I clarified) was whether sleep is the default state of an animal, and everything else is a deviation from that default to achieve a specific (reproductive etc) purpose. So not only we did NOT say that "there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy", but we explicitly said something close to being the opposite: that the only reason to be awake is to "eat and reproduce".
dbenhur 9y ago
My cats figured this out quite a while ago.

by Puts 9y ago

superasn 9y ago

That's quite an insightful comment. Reminds me of an article about sea squirts who literally eat their brain once they are settled and have no longer a use for moving [1] [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/choke/201207/how-humans-learn-lessons-the-sea-squirt https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/choke/201207/how-humans...

JimboOmega 9y ago

But sleeping makes you much more vulnerable to predation, and really doesn't save much more energy vs. quiet/restful wakefulness. Just think of how disoriented you are when something wakes you up in the middle of night - that's a definite biological cost if that thing is something threatening to you. And of course, never mind creatures that have gone as far as the 50/50 brain adaptation (IE Dolphins), they simply have to be at least partially awake all the time.

ghthor 9y ago
This could be why meditation is such a useful state for our brain to be in. A combination of wakeful, highly aware of surroundings, yet peace and calm enough for waste to be cleaned up.

smallgovt 9y ago

This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis. What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The fact is we naturally sleep sometimes and we're awake at other times. If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false. The (assumed) primary motive here is to find a way to sleep less. We already have ways to force wakefulness. We now need to find ways to mitigate negative side effects hence the research on various health functions sleep contributes towards.

coldtea 9y ago
>This strikes me as the type of comment that sounds artificially 'deep' but has no constructive or logical basis A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". >What does 'default state' even mean in this context? The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics?
- smallgovt 9y ago
  > The state that requires the less energy expenditure? Similar to a rest/equilibrium state in physics? That's a very reasonable definition. Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if <insert obviously true statement>" is not a constructive or insightful question. > A bizarro thing to say, given that the parent gave several arguments that make sense from an evolutionary/physical viewpoint, like "sleeping requires much less energy" and "the only reason to be awake is to eat and reproduce". Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Taking that into account, let's revisit the context of the parent comment: "What if being asleep is the default state for any organism?" What do you mean "what if"? "What if <insert obviously true statement>" is not a constructive or insightful question. Well, assuming it's true, it's not that "obvious". And even if it is obvious to e.g. a biologist, it's not at all obvious to a layperson. In fact it's so "not obvious" that you didn't even consider it valid when the parent said it (I merely clarified it further). >Repeating myself: If you're suggesting there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy, that's patently false. Why repeat that though? It's not as is somebody claimed it. What parent said (and I clarified) was whether sleep is the default state of an animal, and everything else is a deviation from that default to achieve a specific (reproductive etc) purpose. So not only we did NOT say that "there's no reason for sleep other than conserving energy", but we explicitly said something close to being the opposite: that the only reason to be awake is to "eat and reproduce".

dbenhur 9y ago

My cats figured this out quite a while ago.