4 ms·

Oh my god, think of what this would do to commerce, in terms of a capitalist society. Suddenly, you can take a drug that decreases your need for sleep by 50%.

by eckza 10y ago

Oh my god, think of what this would do to commerce, in terms of a capitalist society. Suddenly, you can take a drug that decreases your need for sleep by 50%. People only need 4h of sleep per night now, for a full nights' sleep - 3h, if you're willing to skimp a little, 2h isn't unheard of (in the way that only getting 4h of sleep a night, now, isn't unheard of either). Suddenly, there's a significant advantage in the hands of everyone willing to take this drug. Students are expected to study more and harder, because they don't need 8h of sleep every night. Entrance exams to schools get more difficult. Software developers are now enticed to work longer hours - longer hours than they already are. Labor / shift workers (hospitality / food industry) are expected to work longer shifts, and they have to, because businesses have to be open longer because more people are awake for more of the day. Now, also, you have to consider: this is just sleep, in terms of brain repair. Your body has to put itself back together every night, too - repairing microscopic muscle tears, fixing bruises, etc etc etc. Your body would probably start slowly falling apart on 2-3h of sleep per night, even if your mind was fully rested. I really, really hope this doesn't happen.

ChuckMcM 10y ago
It is entirely possible that it would evolve differently, perhaps given that not everyone would be available during the 'dark' hours you might see a society evolve into dual function, where 8 hours were for 'working' and 8 hours were for 'community/family' with 8 hours split into two 4 hour segments as 'transition times'.
- bmelton 10y ago
  I was thinking this as well. I suspect that it's impossible to predict, but I wouldn't think it unfathomable to imagine a world in which, with all the additional free time, society might evolve towards a more Italian ethos, in which we take longer lunches, and don't mind spending as much overall time 'at the office', though not necessarily working any more while there.
  - eckza 10y ago
    As an American, living in late capitalism, I do not see this as anything but extremely wishful thinking for 99% of the working population here. But if this sort of thing ever does happen, then I absolutely hope that it goes down as you've described.
    - bmelton 10y ago
      Yes, your anti-capitalist intentions were pretty clear from your earlier post. Put simply, I do not share your views on the subject.
      - eckza 10y ago
        That's fair. Sorry, I hope I didn't get too carried away. Thanks for the dialogue. :)
        bmelton 10y ago
        No need to apologize, I just don't agree. In the time I've been alive, I've seen more and more employers gravitating towards fewer hours, more lenient work schedules, etc. My first job was basically a minimum of 10 hours a day, and 6, sometimes 7 days a week. Nowadays, companies (especially in tech, mind you) are realizing the difficulty in recruiting / training / keeping personnel and are competing on benefits to the extent that 'unlimited' vacation days, telework, longer maternity and paternity leaves, etc. And before the obvious counterargument is made, this isn't limited just to technology (though it does seem to be blazing the trail.) Tech, agriculture, finance, business, and any industry in which recruiting and keeping talent are tricky are basically trading dollars for perks, and often, the result of that is that employees get to keep more of their personal time for themselves. Sure, this hasn't affected every industry, and for industries where labor is a commodity, it may never occur, but just as sure as you believe your scenario is the result of capitalism, I believe that the increase in perks / time / accommodation is the same.
        eckza 10y ago
lorenzhs 10y ago
There's a Doctor Who episode that sort of goes there a little, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_No_More_(Doctor_Who) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_No_More_(Doctor_Who) . It isn't one of the better episodes and the main plot is rather ridiculous but it does touchy upon your argument tangentially.
daviross 10y ago
There's a (good, rather surreal at times) webcomic along these lines, PowerNap. Cyberpunk-ish future, just about everybody takes a drug to eliminate the need for sleep, protagonist is someone who's allergic to the stuff and is navigating life in a world where sleep itself is a disorder. (Plus strange dreamscape things) http://www.powernapcomic.com/d/20110617.html http://www.powernapcomic.com/d/20110617.html
chadgeidel 10y ago
Are you into Science Fiction? You may enjoy Nancy Kress' "Beggars in Spain." It's a story with a similar central thesis.

by eckza 10y ago

ChuckMcM 10y ago

It is entirely possible that it would evolve differently, perhaps given that not everyone would be available during the 'dark' hours you might see a society evolve into dual function, where 8 hours were for 'working' and 8 hours were for 'community/family' with 8 hours split into two 4 hour segments as 'transition times'.

bmelton 10y ago
I was thinking this as well. I suspect that it's impossible to predict, but I wouldn't think it unfathomable to imagine a world in which, with all the additional free time, society might evolve towards a more Italian ethos, in which we take longer lunches, and don't mind spending as much overall time 'at the office', though not necessarily working any more while there.
- eckza 10y ago
  As an American, living in late capitalism, I do not see this as anything but extremely wishful thinking for 99% of the working population here. But if this sort of thing ever does happen, then I absolutely hope that it goes down as you've described.
  - bmelton 10y ago
    Yes, your anti-capitalist intentions were pretty clear from your earlier post. Put simply, I do not share your views on the subject.
    - eckza 10y ago
      That's fair. Sorry, I hope I didn't get too carried away. Thanks for the dialogue. :)
      - bmelton 10y ago
        No need to apologize, I just don't agree. In the time I've been alive, I've seen more and more employers gravitating towards fewer hours, more lenient work schedules, etc. My first job was basically a minimum of 10 hours a day, and 6, sometimes 7 days a week. Nowadays, companies (especially in tech, mind you) are realizing the difficulty in recruiting / training / keeping personnel and are competing on benefits to the extent that 'unlimited' vacation days, telework, longer maternity and paternity leaves, etc. And before the obvious counterargument is made, this isn't limited just to technology (though it does seem to be blazing the trail.) Tech, agriculture, finance, business, and any industry in which recruiting and keeping talent are tricky are basically trading dollars for perks, and often, the result of that is that employees get to keep more of their personal time for themselves. Sure, this hasn't affected every industry, and for industries where labor is a commodity, it may never occur, but just as sure as you believe your scenario is the result of capitalism, I believe that the increase in perks / time / accommodation is the same.
        eckza 10y ago

lorenzhs 10y ago

There's a Doctor Who episode that sort of goes there a little, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_No_More_(Doctor_Who) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_No_More_(Doctor_Who) . It isn't one of the better episodes and the main plot is rather ridiculous but it does touchy upon your argument tangentially.

daviross 10y ago

There's a (good, rather surreal at times) webcomic along these lines, PowerNap. Cyberpunk-ish future, just about everybody takes a drug to eliminate the need for sleep, protagonist is someone who's allergic to the stuff and is navigating life in a world where sleep itself is a disorder. (Plus strange dreamscape things) http://www.powernapcomic.com/d/20110617.html http://www.powernapcomic.com/d/20110617.html

chadgeidel 10y ago

Are you into Science Fiction? You may enjoy Nancy Kress' "Beggars in Spain." It's a story with a similar central thesis.