4 ms·

Are you suggesting that local governments should be handling border patrol and passenger screening, or would have been doing it better?

by baursak 10y ago

nxc18 10y ago
The amount of stuff that gets past the TSA is pretty strong evidence that yes, local government probably could do a better job at basic security/screening. Anyone who really wants to get away with something needs to worry about a 100 other agencies before they worry about the TSA. Really there's very little evidence that the TSA has had any practical success, despite huge expense. I've traveled internationally and I've seen huge containers of cosmetics walked right through the TSA, only to be stopped on simple inter-terminal x-ray/metal detector inspection in Zurich. Just because we have it now doesn't mean we need to have it; TSA regulation is clearly in the useless category.
- baursak 10y ago
  I agree with you that TSA (since we quietly dropped CBP from the conversation) is pretty inefficient and on the border of useless. However, you haven't really answered WHY you think that local government would do a better job. You just stated it without evidence. I'm also curious how it would work practically. If I fly around the country frequently, will I need to be aware of all the differences in screening processes at each local destination? Will airlines need to comply with security standards across all localities, instead of dealing with a single agency?
  - nxc18 10y ago
    That is exactly what happened pre-TSA. And is isn't so much that local government is better, it is that the whole thing is largely unnecessary to begin with; security was different pre-9/11 and it probably worked about as well as security works now. I don't know how old/young you are, but you probably don't remember a world without passports. They were a temporary measure in response to war; now they are the somewhat Orwellian document without which it is illegal for you to leave the U.S. Imagine making the argument today for rolling back mandatory passports, in a world where few people remember life without them. Sooner than you think, if not already, the TSA will be in that same boat. I would assume you are old enough to have a solid memory of 9/11, but today's younger college students have no memory other than the pre-9/11 world. I was in first grade at the time, and traveled with family a (very) short time after. The airport was guarded by soldiers at the time and I got to witness their guns trained on my father when he couldn't find the key to his luggage. It was quite tense later when my GameBoy Color set off the metal detector. Fun times. History is important, if only so that we can remember that what is today has not always been. (Don't be offended if you already know all this; someone reading this comment will be blown away by the idea of a world without pornoscans, patdowns, and shoe removel). Oh, and for CBP, that is explicitly ("...provide for the common defense...") the exclusive role of the federal government. They should probably keep screening at the border, just ideally with more of a customer service/land of opportunity/"welcome to the USA" vibe rather than the "Muslims/brown people GTFO" vibe.

Are you suggesting that local governments should be handling border patrol and passenger screening, or would have been doing it better?

by baursak 10y ago

Are you suggesting that local governments should be handling border patrol and passenger screening, or would have been doing it better?

nxc18 10y ago

The amount of stuff that gets past the TSA is pretty strong evidence that yes, local government probably could do a better job at basic security/screening. Anyone who really wants to get away with something needs to worry about a 100 other agencies before they worry about the TSA. Really there's very little evidence that the TSA has had any practical success, despite huge expense. I've traveled internationally and I've seen huge containers of cosmetics walked right through the TSA, only to be stopped on simple inter-terminal x-ray/metal detector inspection in Zurich. Just because we have it now doesn't mean we need to have it; TSA regulation is clearly in the useless category.

baursak 10y ago
I agree with you that TSA (since we quietly dropped CBP from the conversation) is pretty inefficient and on the border of useless. However, you haven't really answered WHY you think that local government would do a better job. You just stated it without evidence. I'm also curious how it would work practically. If I fly around the country frequently, will I need to be aware of all the differences in screening processes at each local destination? Will airlines need to comply with security standards across all localities, instead of dealing with a single agency?
- nxc18 10y ago
  That is exactly what happened pre-TSA. And is isn't so much that local government is better, it is that the whole thing is largely unnecessary to begin with; security was different pre-9/11 and it probably worked about as well as security works now. I don't know how old/young you are, but you probably don't remember a world without passports. They were a temporary measure in response to war; now they are the somewhat Orwellian document without which it is illegal for you to leave the U.S. Imagine making the argument today for rolling back mandatory passports, in a world where few people remember life without them. Sooner than you think, if not already, the TSA will be in that same boat. I would assume you are old enough to have a solid memory of 9/11, but today's younger college students have no memory other than the pre-9/11 world. I was in first grade at the time, and traveled with family a (very) short time after. The airport was guarded by soldiers at the time and I got to witness their guns trained on my father when he couldn't find the key to his luggage. It was quite tense later when my GameBoy Color set off the metal detector. Fun times. History is important, if only so that we can remember that what is today has not always been. (Don't be offended if you already know all this; someone reading this comment will be blown away by the idea of a world without pornoscans, patdowns, and shoe removel). Oh, and for CBP, that is explicitly ("...provide for the common defense...") the exclusive role of the federal government. They should probably keep screening at the border, just ideally with more of a customer service/land of opportunity/"welcome to the USA" vibe rather than the "Muslims/brown people GTFO" vibe.