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> if I can build an app that runs "unmodified" on any OpenStack-based infrastructure, that has a possibility to save me potential time and money from having to
by yeukhon 10y ago
> if I can build an app that runs "unmodified" on any OpenStack-based infrastructure, that has a possibility to save me potential time and money from having to port apps to/from/between AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, et al (assuming of course that it enough clouds actually adopt).
> There are ways now to build container clusters that you can ship in parallel to AWS and Azure with very little code difference.
OpenStack is an IaaS, so just like AWS. Focus on the context. Do you want your own private cloud? Yes or not?
If no, then this discussion can end, because AWS and Azure run on their proprietary IaaS code. As a customer, you request resources from the IaaS layer, and you build your server/platform from that point.
So arguing that container clusters can ship to other clouds with very little change (almost likely writing the APIs to create a container) is unfair in the context of why one would choose container over OpenStack. The purpose is different.
If your answer is yes I am building a private cloud, how are you going to do that with Docker alone? Can you build a software-defined network with Docker? Absolutely not with Docker since Docker is a host-based deployment solution.
What you are looking for is ability to create OpenStack the same way CloudFoundry / Kubernetes are created. You write up a manifest, and the necessary databases and services are deployed to some EC2 machines. In the case of CloudFoundry, you write up a manifest file, describes number of instances, types, credentials, what not, then call Bosh to create Cloud Foundry (will create a pool of app machines, router servers, UAA, etcd etc). Machines are created based on a stemcell, basically an image. You want to create your IaaS based on images. You want to be able to script up a manifest and deploy your IaaS. You want a lift and drop IaaS infrastructure. Container can do that, but it cannot be done simply with Docker. You need that infrastructure abstraction layer to cover up. That's probably what Docker Enterprise Edition might do, but I have not really dig into it yet.
- WorldMaker 10y agoYes, it is an unfair comparison. I was attempting to explain in my comment why I consider it a valid unfair comparison, because it is a matter of perspective. As a software developer, do I ever want a private cloud? No. Does my employer? Maybe. Is it my job to tell them how to invest their infrastructure dollars? Quite possibly no, because software development and infrastructure are typically held at arms length. But even when they are not in a "proper" DevOps shop, the ballgame of which cloud is then subservient to developer convenience and how easy it is to deploy software to a cloud and how productive developers are writing software for that cloud. So yes, the purpose of OpenStack and Container technologies are very different and I appreciate that technically. In terms of real world value to me as a software developer, however, I have platform problems not infrastructure problems. I don't care what the infrastructure is under the service so long as it provides a stable, reliable platform for me to build upon. Containers abstract that for me in a way that solves real platform problems that OpenStack was only ever relevant to me in so far as its ability to once hint at a possible solution to. That's not fair and that was expecting too much from OpenStack at the time, but that's life.
- yeukhon 10y agoOkay, I was reading it as defending why container would solve what OpenStack was set out to solve, which is the proposition I read from the OP I was replying to. Of course, I would advise against running a private cloud unless there is a dedicated team of at least a dozen or so. I applaud Digital Ocean for able to survive and make good business from their private cloud. As a developer I totally agree I just want my code to be deployed and that all the appendices are deployed and configured.
- shaklee3 10y agoNot with Docker alone, in the same way that you can't do anything with OpenStack alone. It requires a lot of plugins. You can use docker/kubernetes with OVS and have a somewhat workable SDN solution.