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But ... in a text editor you care about lines most of the time. This is what I object to about the rope representation -- it intentionally destroys this inform

by jblow 10y ago

But ... in a text editor you care about lines most of the time. This is what I object to about the rope representation -- it intentionally destroys this information that you actually want available most of the time. I don't think that's nice at all. It's possible you could make the rope work better in this sense by annotating each piece... I dunno, haven't thought about it. As for the worst-case performance thing ... I think my scheme would do fine with super-long lines or 10 million line files. But dude, I don't even have an editor today that works okay on 10k-line files, and I don't think it's the internal data representation that's the problem, I think it's because of all the other decisions that get made (or lack thereof).

raphlinus 10y ago
I have no idea what you mean about "intentionally destroying" line info. The info is right there, and there's a perfectly nice interface (Cursor) for getting at it; no real difference between calling next() on a Cursor object and doing line_index++. Besides, what's a "line"? Is it a source line, or a visual line after wrapping? In an editor, you care deeply about both, depending on what exactly you're doing. With an array of lines, you pick one for the representation, and when you want the other one, it's quite painful. With ropes, no problem at all, just two different Cursor objects into the same rope. I agree, other decisions besides buffer representation are important, and I'm doing my best to get those right too.
- moron4hire 10y ago
  >> and when you want the other one, it's quite painful. It's really not that painful. A logical line of text may span multiple visual lines because of word wrapping. A visual line will never span more than one logical line. So you always have a 1-to-N relationship between logical and visual lines, and everyone knows you have to go to M-to-N before things get objectively painful. Here's the thing about text editors: they are extremely well known problems. It's really hard to say anything about writing a text editor is "difficult" when we have hundreds of examples of free, open source software that we can sit with and analyze for requirements. There really aren't many new lessons to learn, certainly not in the memory representation for the file. It's really nice to talk about parallelizing your text editor operations, but here in the year twenty thousand and seventeen, Vi is still single-threaded and not at all hardware accelerated and it still runs essentially infinitely faster than most other text editors. The only time Vi's single-threadedness becomes a problem is when plugin authors can't be arsed to not load up Python. What data structure does Vi use? An array of lines.

by jblow 10y ago

raphlinus 10y ago

I have no idea what you mean about "intentionally destroying" line info. The info is right there, and there's a perfectly nice interface (Cursor) for getting at it; no real difference between calling next() on a Cursor object and doing line_index++. Besides, what's a "line"? Is it a source line, or a visual line after wrapping? In an editor, you care deeply about both, depending on what exactly you're doing. With an array of lines, you pick one for the representation, and when you want the other one, it's quite painful. With ropes, no problem at all, just two different Cursor objects into the same rope. I agree, other decisions besides buffer representation are important, and I'm doing my best to get those right too.

moron4hire 10y ago
>> and when you want the other one, it's quite painful. It's really not that painful. A logical line of text may span multiple visual lines because of word wrapping. A visual line will never span more than one logical line. So you always have a 1-to-N relationship between logical and visual lines, and everyone knows you have to go to M-to-N before things get objectively painful. Here's the thing about text editors: they are extremely well known problems. It's really hard to say anything about writing a text editor is "difficult" when we have hundreds of examples of free, open source software that we can sit with and analyze for requirements. There really aren't many new lessons to learn, certainly not in the memory representation for the file. It's really nice to talk about parallelizing your text editor operations, but here in the year twenty thousand and seventeen, Vi is still single-threaded and not at all hardware accelerated and it still runs essentially infinitely faster than most other text editors. The only time Vi's single-threadedness becomes a problem is when plugin authors can't be arsed to not load up Python. What data structure does Vi use? An array of lines.