4 ms·

Well, don't keep us in suspense. What do you think the reasons are for... first, describe the phenomenon under discussion because I think that is the first chal

Well, don't keep us in suspense. What do you think the reasons are for... first, describe the phenomenon under discussion because I think that is the first challenge.

Mikeb85 9y ago
Globalisation and immigration have weakened the relative wealth of the working classes. The left refuses to acknowledge the problem while the right (and far right) does, so guess where that leads?
- egeozcan 9y ago
  I couldn't guess it. No, I'm not being sarcastic.
  - Mikeb85 9y ago
    Read someone like Piketty. He has tons of data to back up the assertion that the working classes are losing relative wealth. Then take an economics course. Realise that globalisation outsources manufacturing, agriculture, services, etc..., lowering costs, but also lowering wages. This is by design. The 'Information' industry in the west was supposed to make up for the loss of blue collar jobs. Except it hasn't. And then also realise that immigration increases the size of the workforce, especially the uneducated workforce. Again, downward pressure on wages. Personally I think progressive economics provides a better solution than the regressive protectionism of the right. Except the left pretends there's no problem, and here we are.
- inputcoffee 9y ago
  Just so you know: HN doesn't let people downvote responses to their own comments. However, in the context here, you think that: Erdogan swept into power because the working class in Turkey has been "weakened" by immigration and globalization?
  - Mikeb85 9y ago
    My account is 4 years old, I know the first detail. Second, the parent of your comment was about right-wing parties rising in Hungary and Poland.
    - inputcoffee 9y ago
      So you think the "populist" forces at work in Turkey are not the same as those in Hungary and Poland? Are they the same as those in the US? or Syria? I am asking because I think most writers think of these as part of a larger global movement, but your comments suggest you think they are different.
      - Mikeb85 9y ago
        No, they're not. Populist forces in the west are intrinsically linked to the collapse of blue collar industries and jobs as well as forced immigration, and aren't necessarily nationalist, it's more a reaction against the status quo. In Turkey and the Middle East Islamism has been rising, partly due to the collapse of Arab nationalism and partly due to Saudi Arabia's worldwide propagation of Wahhabism.

Well, don't keep us in suspense. What do you think the reasons are for... first, describe the phenomenon under discussion because I think that is the first challenge.

Mikeb85 9y ago

Globalisation and immigration have weakened the relative wealth of the working classes. The left refuses to acknowledge the problem while the right (and far right) does, so guess where that leads?

egeozcan 9y ago
I couldn't guess it. No, I'm not being sarcastic.
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  Read someone like Piketty. He has tons of data to back up the assertion that the working classes are losing relative wealth. Then take an economics course. Realise that globalisation outsources manufacturing, agriculture, services, etc..., lowering costs, but also lowering wages. This is by design. The 'Information' industry in the west was supposed to make up for the loss of blue collar jobs. Except it hasn't. And then also realise that immigration increases the size of the workforce, especially the uneducated workforce. Again, downward pressure on wages. Personally I think progressive economics provides a better solution than the regressive protectionism of the right. Except the left pretends there's no problem, and here we are.
inputcoffee 9y ago
Just so you know: HN doesn't let people downvote responses to their own comments. However, in the context here, you think that: Erdogan swept into power because the working class in Turkey has been "weakened" by immigration and globalization?
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  My account is 4 years old, I know the first detail. Second, the parent of your comment was about right-wing parties rising in Hungary and Poland.
  - inputcoffee 9y ago
    So you think the "populist" forces at work in Turkey are not the same as those in Hungary and Poland? Are they the same as those in the US? or Syria? I am asking because I think most writers think of these as part of a larger global movement, but your comments suggest you think they are different.
    - Mikeb85 9y ago
      No, they're not. Populist forces in the west are intrinsically linked to the collapse of blue collar industries and jobs as well as forced immigration, and aren't necessarily nationalist, it's more a reaction against the status quo. In Turkey and the Middle East Islamism has been rising, partly due to the collapse of Arab nationalism and partly due to Saudi Arabia's worldwide propagation of Wahhabism.