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> These kinds of problems are not factored into the economics of energy Do you believe internalizing these costs into the price of energy is sufficient to reac

> These kinds of problems are not factored into the economics of energy Do you believe internalizing these costs into the price of energy is sufficient to reach a sustainable equilibrium between the environment and the economy?

okreallywtf 9y ago
I'm not exactly sure what you mean but if our existence has to be economically viable (ie, we have to work within the construct of our artificial economy and if survival isn't profitable enough then too bad) then we need to do whatever we can to make the system work. If the cost of fossil-fuel based energy are artificially low because they don't take environmental damage into account, we have to adjust it and that adjustment might make fossil-fuel based energy more costly than renewable sources. Alternatively if we tax fossil fuel energy highly, we can use those revenues to combat the problems as well.
- jawarner 9y ago
  Agreed, I'm asking out of curiosity as I'm unfamiliar with the economics. Let's say a board of scientists creates a environmental cost curve for various levels of CO2: C(T) represents the marginal cost of emitting one ton/day of CO2 when T tons/day of CO2 are currently emitted. If we apply a CO2 tax of amount C(T), then CO2 emissions will decrease to account for the higher marginal cost of production. The question is: Will this new production level be environmentally sustainable?
  - okreallywtf 9y ago
    I can't answer that for sure and I'm not sure anyone can which is what makes this problem difficult. We have projections about what CO2 levels need to be by a given year to hopefully avoid a 2 degree increase, but when you are dealing with potential global catastrophe it seems crazy to debate minute details and if we try to just do the bare minimum we might still have catastrophe because our estimates were not on the money. The earlier we start the less drastic our measures have to be. Unfortunately aside from pure market forces you can just about write off the USA for the next 4 years (in fact, maybe assume that we are a hostile actor as far as climate change is concerned) which means in 4 years we may not even have as many options and measures will get increasingly drastic (ie, potential energy limits on actual consumers).

okreallywtf 9y ago

I'm not exactly sure what you mean but if our existence has to be economically viable (ie, we have to work within the construct of our artificial economy and if survival isn't profitable enough then too bad) then we need to do whatever we can to make the system work. If the cost of fossil-fuel based energy are artificially low because they don't take environmental damage into account, we have to adjust it and that adjustment might make fossil-fuel based energy more costly than renewable sources. Alternatively if we tax fossil fuel energy highly, we can use those revenues to combat the problems as well.

jawarner 9y ago
Agreed, I'm asking out of curiosity as I'm unfamiliar with the economics. Let's say a board of scientists creates a environmental cost curve for various levels of CO2: C(T) represents the marginal cost of emitting one ton/day of CO2 when T tons/day of CO2 are currently emitted. If we apply a CO2 tax of amount C(T), then CO2 emissions will decrease to account for the higher marginal cost of production. The question is: Will this new production level be environmentally sustainable?
- okreallywtf 9y ago
  I can't answer that for sure and I'm not sure anyone can which is what makes this problem difficult. We have projections about what CO2 levels need to be by a given year to hopefully avoid a 2 degree increase, but when you are dealing with potential global catastrophe it seems crazy to debate minute details and if we try to just do the bare minimum we might still have catastrophe because our estimates were not on the money. The earlier we start the less drastic our measures have to be. Unfortunately aside from pure market forces you can just about write off the USA for the next 4 years (in fact, maybe assume that we are a hostile actor as far as climate change is concerned) which means in 4 years we may not even have as many options and measures will get increasingly drastic (ie, potential energy limits on actual consumers).