5 ms·

From someone not very invested in the OpenStack process it feels like all the momentum of the recent push of the project just withered away all at once. I am no

From someone not very invested in the OpenStack process it feels like all the momentum of the recent push of the project just withered away all at once. I am not sure if the container crowd ate it's lunch, where containerized appliances just solve the problem of openstack better.

kashyapc 10y ago
[Disclosure: I spend a (not too large) _portion_ of my time on the OpenStack Compute project, so adjust my comments for bias.] Please. You seem to be making the same mistake, that many make on blogs and news websites, of exclaiming "containers are the future!" while both VMs and containers have their place and use-cases. I'd rather suggest you read the below. (Since I'm linking to a blog, quick background about the author: Rich is one of the long-time contributors of KVM-based Virtualization stack and the lead author / maintainer of libguestfs.org) https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-boring-truth-full-virtualization-and-containerization-both-have-their-place/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-boring-truth-full-...
- foobiekr 10y ago
  VMs have their place, but a lot of what kind of built the OpenStack hype engine - dynamic workload deployment and multitenant-style management - also is what driving the (also partly aspirational) deployment of containers. The thing is, though, they are at odds. Enterprises don't have nearly the dynamic workload set that people thought but where they legitimately have some is in devops style development. And if you have container management, which you do, then highly dynamic VM management is much less valuable.
- xemdetia 10y ago
  I am not really claiming containers are the future, but from someone who is actively working on a network appliance I have people asking me at least twice a month about containers to put my product in (from people who are already managing 10k+ systems and wanting to simplify deployment). I have heard zero buzz about OpenStack except during a SVP drive by about a year ago. Most of the customer sites I interact with on the high end just end up baking their own system images tied to a SSO solution and just manage it with VMWare/Ansible/something homegrown. On the low end people just don't deal with OpenStack at all and just do it the hard way with a VMWare or KVM style solution. For either side of that equation containerization is a faster value-add. From the other side what people ask me about cloud integration is more feature-driven of particular clouds than anything else. I'm just not seeing the momentum in the field.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
yeukhon 10y ago
OpenStack is a platform for creating an Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS). So it's running on some physical machines, and manages your physical machines to slice into VMs. There you get to manage / create networks, storage, etc. Basically running a private cloud in your own datacenter/basement/office. Openstack has grown more than just compute. It has a supposedly compatible interface for S3 an object storage system, for example. New components are created after major cloud services like AWS, pretty much. To manage containers or manage applications, you can use CloudFoundry/Kubernetes, but to manage the "infrastructure as a platform" (I want more machines, I want some bucket, I want to run some Lambda function, I want to upload new OS images) you need something like OpenStack. So if you want to build AWS/Digital Ocean, OpenStack is required.
- dc2447 10y ago
  Absolutely. You get it. It's frustrating to read people comparing container technologies or worse container schedulers with OpenStack. Apples and oranges. If you are planning on running containers on premise you need something from managing the IAAS side of things. OpenStack is excellent at IAAS and is the foundation for running higher level abstractions and services on top.
  - justinhensley 10y ago
    I said elsewhere in the thread. If there is a better IaaS solution than OpenStack, then I would love to know about it. I disagree with you that you need an IaaS solution to run containers on-prem, but realistically, yes you do need an IaaS solution
    - doublerebel 10y ago
      I would go with Joyent SDC/Triton, it has a much more mature container and VM platform. It's incredible it's so missed in these comments.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- 10y ago

kashyapc 10y ago

[Disclosure: I spend a (not too large) _portion_ of my time on the OpenStack Compute project, so adjust my comments for bias.] Please. You seem to be making the same mistake, that many make on blogs and news websites, of exclaiming "containers are the future!" while both VMs and containers have their place and use-cases. I'd rather suggest you read the below. (Since I'm linking to a blog, quick background about the author: Rich is one of the long-time contributors of KVM-based Virtualization stack and the lead author / maintainer of libguestfs.org) https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-boring-truth-full-virtualization-and-containerization-both-have-their-place/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/the-boring-truth-full-...

foobiekr 10y ago
VMs have their place, but a lot of what kind of built the OpenStack hype engine - dynamic workload deployment and multitenant-style management - also is what driving the (also partly aspirational) deployment of containers. The thing is, though, they are at odds. Enterprises don't have nearly the dynamic workload set that people thought but where they legitimately have some is in devops style development. And if you have container management, which you do, then highly dynamic VM management is much less valuable.
xemdetia 10y ago
I am not really claiming containers are the future, but from someone who is actively working on a network appliance I have people asking me at least twice a month about containers to put my product in (from people who are already managing 10k+ systems and wanting to simplify deployment). I have heard zero buzz about OpenStack except during a SVP drive by about a year ago. Most of the customer sites I interact with on the high end just end up baking their own system images tied to a SSO solution and just manage it with VMWare/Ansible/something homegrown. On the low end people just don't deal with OpenStack at all and just do it the hard way with a VMWare or KVM style solution. For either side of that equation containerization is a faster value-add. From the other side what people ask me about cloud integration is more feature-driven of particular clouds than anything else. I'm just not seeing the momentum in the field.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

yeukhon 10y ago

OpenStack is a platform for creating an Infrastructure as a Service (IaaS). So it's running on some physical machines, and manages your physical machines to slice into VMs. There you get to manage / create networks, storage, etc. Basically running a private cloud in your own datacenter/basement/office. Openstack has grown more than just compute. It has a supposedly compatible interface for S3 an object storage system, for example. New components are created after major cloud services like AWS, pretty much. To manage containers or manage applications, you can use CloudFoundry/Kubernetes, but to manage the "infrastructure as a platform" (I want more machines, I want some bucket, I want to run some Lambda function, I want to upload new OS images) you need something like OpenStack. So if you want to build AWS/Digital Ocean, OpenStack is required.

dc2447 10y ago
Absolutely. You get it. It's frustrating to read people comparing container technologies or worse container schedulers with OpenStack. Apples and oranges. If you are planning on running containers on premise you need something from managing the IAAS side of things. OpenStack is excellent at IAAS and is the foundation for running higher level abstractions and services on top.
- justinhensley 10y ago
  I said elsewhere in the thread. If there is a better IaaS solution than OpenStack, then I would love to know about it. I disagree with you that you need an IaaS solution to run containers on-prem, but realistically, yes you do need an IaaS solution
  - doublerebel 10y ago
    I would go with Joyent SDC/Triton, it has a much more mature container and VM platform. It's incredible it's so missed in these comments.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
10y ago