5 ms·

Are you from this planet? People consistently burn down all the things that sustains them in pursuit of short term gains. Like that's not even a philosophical p

Are you from this planet? People consistently burn down all the things that sustains them in pursuit of short term gains. Like that's not even a philosophical point about greed and shortsightedness. It's an empirical fact you can bet on.

RubenSandwich 10y ago
Sadly this is true, but it still seems illogical every time it happens. Edit: Illogical because while you may be making money now, your actions will cause you to loose your assets in the long term.
- mizzao 10y ago
  Humans are just a lot better conditioned to respond to short-term stimuli than long-term goals. Maybe it's a product of our evolutionary history (avoiding predators, making sure we are fed) but it sure doesn't work well at global, collective scales.
  - RubenSandwich 10y ago
    Agreed. This is why I believe that we should have regulations and rules to make certain short-term gains painful. That self-regulation is at best wishful thinking. Let's say that you have 'sustainability', fill in that word however you want, in mind when building your business. But a company who's primary concern is growth will most likely surge ahead of you, possibly squeezing them out of the market. That company can't just retrofit those 'sustainability' practices as by this time they are expected to continue their revenue and company culture is extremely difficult to change.
  - alexandersingh 10y ago
    Are you aware of any studies or successful real-world implementations of systems to promote and incentivize long-term thinking, planning & action?
    - dkarapetyan 10y ago
      Dan Ariely and folks in behavioral economics in general have written a book or two on the matter. Basically it comes down to tricking your brain into long term thinking by hijacking short term thinking habits. Like if you want to develop a running habit then eat a cake after every run and then after a while stop eating the cake. Then you start looking forward to the run because you anticipate eating cake which after a while becomes a running habit. Substitute whatever you like for the cake. It's all hacks though. Humanity is basically doomed. At some point the thinking that we can innovate ourselves out of every dilemma we got ourselves into will stop working because the complexity of the dilemma keeps growing and technology will stop being the panacea it is at a certain level of complexity.
- mikestew 10y ago
  Illogical, yes, but common enough that we have parables about it. See: The Goose That Laid the Golden Egg.
- bryondowd 10y ago
  Is it even illogical? If you can compete better right now by doing X, at the cost of your business 30 years down the road, the incentives, long and short, probably line up with doing X. As an individual, you do it, and hope that in 30 years, you've earned enough to retire or transition to another revenue form. If you go the sustainable route, as someone else pointed out, you likely get out-competed by someone who didn't, and have to find an alternative livelihood even sooner. It's a snowballing issue, where even modest benefits in the short term actually result in massive benefits in the long term, despite a long term penalty. So, the only way to align incentives with long-term, is for penalties to be applied short-term for behaviors that will impact an industry long-term. Otherwise every individual decision-maker has to weigh whether they are better off making their money and moving on versus trying to compete with a handicap long enough for the long haul.
- zo1 10y ago
  It's perfectly logical I would say. You could argue that these individuals have seen the bigger picture, and realize that them doing the "logical" thing would disadvantage them over others. Not only that, but it's also perfectly logical to think that by the time these envionmental things become issues, we'd have come up with technology to combat/mitigate them. We're not all automatons that think alike and share the environmental ideas that you do.
treehau5 10y ago
"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money."
- jsudhams 10y ago
  The last tree will be cut not because of cutting trees but because of not able to provide sustainable (growth??) to farmers. It is because products of steel and plastic from multinationals. In the name of safety etc. -- From a farming who use to sow and grow pine tree in about 8 acres for 60 years now we stopped completely and planted eucalyptus knowing that our land may not be cultivatable anymore for next 20 years

RubenSandwich 10y ago

Sadly this is true, but it still seems illogical every time it happens. Edit: Illogical because while you may be making money now, your actions will cause you to loose your assets in the long term.

mizzao 10y ago
Humans are just a lot better conditioned to respond to short-term stimuli than long-term goals. Maybe it's a product of our evolutionary history (avoiding predators, making sure we are fed) but it sure doesn't work well at global, collective scales.
- RubenSandwich 10y ago
  Agreed. This is why I believe that we should have regulations and rules to make certain short-term gains painful. That self-regulation is at best wishful thinking. Let's say that you have 'sustainability', fill in that word however you want, in mind when building your business. But a company who's primary concern is growth will most likely surge ahead of you, possibly squeezing them out of the market. That company can't just retrofit those 'sustainability' practices as by this time they are expected to continue their revenue and company culture is extremely difficult to change.
- alexandersingh 10y ago
  Are you aware of any studies or successful real-world implementations of systems to promote and incentivize long-term thinking, planning & action?
  - dkarapetyan 10y ago
    Dan Ariely and folks in behavioral economics in general have written a book or two on the matter. Basically it comes down to tricking your brain into long term thinking by hijacking short term thinking habits. Like if you want to develop a running habit then eat a cake after every run and then after a while stop eating the cake. Then you start looking forward to the run because you anticipate eating cake which after a while becomes a running habit. Substitute whatever you like for the cake. It's all hacks though. Humanity is basically doomed. At some point the thinking that we can innovate ourselves out of every dilemma we got ourselves into will stop working because the complexity of the dilemma keeps growing and technology will stop being the panacea it is at a certain level of complexity.
mikestew 10y ago
Illogical, yes, but common enough that we have parables about it. See: The Goose That Laid the Golden Egg.
bryondowd 10y ago
Is it even illogical? If you can compete better right now by doing X, at the cost of your business 30 years down the road, the incentives, long and short, probably line up with doing X. As an individual, you do it, and hope that in 30 years, you've earned enough to retire or transition to another revenue form. If you go the sustainable route, as someone else pointed out, you likely get out-competed by someone who didn't, and have to find an alternative livelihood even sooner. It's a snowballing issue, where even modest benefits in the short term actually result in massive benefits in the long term, despite a long term penalty. So, the only way to align incentives with long-term, is for penalties to be applied short-term for behaviors that will impact an industry long-term. Otherwise every individual decision-maker has to weigh whether they are better off making their money and moving on versus trying to compete with a handicap long enough for the long haul.
zo1 10y ago
It's perfectly logical I would say. You could argue that these individuals have seen the bigger picture, and realize that them doing the "logical" thing would disadvantage them over others. Not only that, but it's also perfectly logical to think that by the time these envionmental things become issues, we'd have come up with technology to combat/mitigate them. We're not all automatons that think alike and share the environmental ideas that you do.

treehau5 10y ago

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money."

jsudhams 10y ago
The last tree will be cut not because of cutting trees but because of not able to provide sustainable (growth??) to farmers. It is because products of steel and plastic from multinationals. In the name of safety etc. -- From a farming who use to sow and grow pine tree in about 8 acres for 60 years now we stopped completely and planted eucalyptus knowing that our land may not be cultivatable anymore for next 20 years