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At least kill the f'kin things if you are gonna drain them of their blood. Seems like its just a poor excuse to say 'we didnt kill them..they are just fine! *dr

At least kill the f'kin things if you are gonna drain them of their blood. Seems like its just a poor excuse to say 'we didnt kill them..they are just fine! *drops crab back into water with half of its blood supply' Based on what I read, these crabs are basically given a death sentence. I'd rather them be killed and harvested than bloodsucked tortured and thrown back into a predator ecosystem where they are too delirious and pretty much get butchered by whatever's out there.

dmix 10y ago
That's a fair concern. This is why studying it is important. The scientists made some assumptions that the blood would regenerate and they would likely be fine. So agreed it's good they did this and they should find a way to do it more humanely, if possible. > The International Union for Conservation of Nature, which sets global standards for species extinction, created a horseshoe crab subcommittee in 2012 to monitor the issue. The group decided last year that the American horseshoe crab is "vulnerable" to extinction—a higher level of danger compared to the last Red List assessment in 1996. An artificial replacement might be the only long term solution. Or mass breeding, if it is indeed so expensive. > And then there's the pure damn necessity. While several companies have come up with synthetic alternatives for detecting the presence of endotoxins in vaccines, medicine, and medical instruments, LAL is still the only test that has received FDA approval.
openasocket 10y ago
It isn't a death sentence: the overwhelming majority survive, and even go through the process again. If they killed them outright the species would go extinct. Of those two options, this is the environmentally friendly one.
- goldenkey 10y ago
  Did you read the article? The overwhelming majority die when released back into the ocean after being bloodsucked.
  - poizan42 10y ago
    Did you read it? > And evidence is accumulating that the death rate of bled horseshoe crabs is much higher (more like 29 percent versus 15 percent) You do understand that a majority means more than 50% right? So 29 percent is not a majority, and certainly not an overwhelming majority
    - logicallee 10y ago
      while you're at math, one thing to note is that if the same crab is caught 4 times, with a 29% chance of dying each time, then the chances that they are still alive is (1-0.29)^4 which is about 25%. And the chance that they are dead is 75%. Granted I don't know how often crabs are re-caught, or if they would have the same chance of dying each time.
      - novia 10y ago
        Seems like they should require the industry to mark crabs that have been caught with something that would last long enough to allow them to regenerate their blood supply.
        logicallee 10y ago
        But even if we assume that if they survive they regenerate 100% so they're at the level as though they had never been caught, still, repeating the same 29% risk of dying four times results in an overall 75% chance of dying. (As calculated above.) If you don't want the population to deplete over time you have to make sure they are repopulating faster than this. (Assuming you accept the deaths to begin with.)
        openasocket 10y ago
        It's a fair concern, but if I'd bet it's not an issue. We used to kill millions of these things every year in the 20th century for fertilizer. Even if we killed every single one we harvested for blood we're talking half a million a year. The horseshoe crab survived decades of much worse. Of course, it's definitely something we should keep an eye on, just in case.
- coding123 10y ago
  However I wonder at what point we're affecting their ability to mate, reproduce, etc..
  - novia 10y ago
    While reading the article I was wondering, would things be better if they only bled the male horseshoe crabs? In mammals you theoretically need fewer healthy males than females to successfully produce the next generation. However, since horseshoe crabs fertilize the eggs once they have been laid, I'm not sure whether the same population dynamic is at play.
poizan42 10y ago
It is not known for sure what the mortality rate is after draining them, but the worst estimate seems to be 30%, so not at all a death sentence

dmix 10y ago

That's a fair concern. This is why studying it is important. The scientists made some assumptions that the blood would regenerate and they would likely be fine. So agreed it's good they did this and they should find a way to do it more humanely, if possible. > The International Union for Conservation of Nature, which sets global standards for species extinction, created a horseshoe crab subcommittee in 2012 to monitor the issue. The group decided last year that the American horseshoe crab is "vulnerable" to extinction—a higher level of danger compared to the last Red List assessment in 1996. An artificial replacement might be the only long term solution. Or mass breeding, if it is indeed so expensive. > And then there's the pure damn necessity. While several companies have come up with synthetic alternatives for detecting the presence of endotoxins in vaccines, medicine, and medical instruments, LAL is still the only test that has received FDA approval.

openasocket 10y ago

It isn't a death sentence: the overwhelming majority survive, and even go through the process again. If they killed them outright the species would go extinct. Of those two options, this is the environmentally friendly one.

goldenkey 10y ago
Did you read the article? The overwhelming majority die when released back into the ocean after being bloodsucked.
- poizan42 10y ago
  Did you read it? > And evidence is accumulating that the death rate of bled horseshoe crabs is much higher (more like 29 percent versus 15 percent) You do understand that a majority means more than 50% right? So 29 percent is not a majority, and certainly not an overwhelming majority
  - logicallee 10y ago
    while you're at math, one thing to note is that if the same crab is caught 4 times, with a 29% chance of dying each time, then the chances that they are still alive is (1-0.29)^4 which is about 25%. And the chance that they are dead is 75%. Granted I don't know how often crabs are re-caught, or if they would have the same chance of dying each time.
    - novia 10y ago
      Seems like they should require the industry to mark crabs that have been caught with something that would last long enough to allow them to regenerate their blood supply.
      - logicallee 10y ago
        But even if we assume that if they survive they regenerate 100% so they're at the level as though they had never been caught, still, repeating the same 29% risk of dying four times results in an overall 75% chance of dying. (As calculated above.) If you don't want the population to deplete over time you have to make sure they are repopulating faster than this. (Assuming you accept the deaths to begin with.)
        openasocket 10y ago
        It's a fair concern, but if I'd bet it's not an issue. We used to kill millions of these things every year in the 20th century for fertilizer. Even if we killed every single one we harvested for blood we're talking half a million a year. The horseshoe crab survived decades of much worse. Of course, it's definitely something we should keep an eye on, just in case.
coding123 10y ago
However I wonder at what point we're affecting their ability to mate, reproduce, etc..
- novia 10y ago
  While reading the article I was wondering, would things be better if they only bled the male horseshoe crabs? In mammals you theoretically need fewer healthy males than females to successfully produce the next generation. However, since horseshoe crabs fertilize the eggs once they have been laid, I'm not sure whether the same population dynamic is at play.

poizan42 10y ago

It is not known for sure what the mortality rate is after draining them, but the worst estimate seems to be 30%, so not at all a death sentence