5 ms·

iPhone 4 Is Nice, But It's Not Enough to Slow Android

53 points by instcode 16y ago

Enlightenment 16y ago
All you fanboys, please line up to get on your knees for Steve Jobs.
draper 16y ago
Android is the Windows of Mobile. ugly, cheap and clunky.
- louismg 16y ago
  I would argue Windows Mobile is the Windows of Mobile.
  - hboon 16y ago
    That's giving Windows Mobile too much credibility.
    - Osiris 16y ago
      I've only used Windows Mobile on Symbol handheld scanners, and I have to say it's the worst OS EVER. It's a nightmare trying to get that thing configured properly for network connections since it still thinks that Dial-Up with a modem is a first class citizen.
    - bobbyi 16y ago
      Blackberry is actually the Windows of mobile
      - louismg 16y ago
        Now now, BlackBerry is actually pretty good at e-mail. That's something.
        bruceboughton 16y ago
        For a device designed almost exclusively for email, I'd say BlackBerry is astoundingly poor at email.
  - pkulak 16y ago
    Wow. That one was served up t-ball style.
    - louismg 16y ago
      True. It's been easier than some of the other comments here that have been in disagreement.
bdr 16y ago
I'd rather have speed and battery life than tethering. If "speed and battery life measures are subjective" is all you have to say, that sounds like intentional ignorance.
- lpolovets 16y ago
  Fully agree that both sides of the coin are important. However, of the following potential developments: 1) New Android phones become much faster and/or have longer battery lives 2) New iPhones become much more open and less locked-down I think #1 is much more likely.
  - papachito 16y ago
    Froyo is already much faster.
  - louismg 16y ago
    Agreed on this comment 100%. I think Android is going to have more handsets, manufacturers, carriers, and eventually users. Their products are going to continually improve. The recent past has shown momentum on the innovation side that is lapping iPhone, I believe. I don't think iPhone is going to open up at quite a rate.
    - bruceboughton 16y ago
      Everyone seems to think that Android will eventually dominate the market because "the products are going to continually improve". Guess what, so is iPhone. Apple have made it clear that this is their primary business. They're in it to win it. This is not Google's primary business--it is a loss leader to support that business. I think it's far from inevitable that Android will win out (pettiness of the Apple vs. Google battle aside).
      - louismg 16y ago
        I look forward to iPhone getting better. I understand your viewpoints as well. I hope the original article did not sound petty. That was not the intent.
dieterrams 16y ago
How knee-deep in a silly Android vs iPhone fanboy war do you have to be to write a long post addressing the supposed presumption that iPhone 4 was going to slow Android down? What sensible person is even constructing thoughts along these lines? Many kinds of critiques, positive and negative, of both platforms are welcome. But this sort of fanboy service horse race punditry is not. At this stage, the smartphone market is not a zero sum game. Nobody has to slow anybody down. Stop polarizing this space.
- louismg 16y ago
  I agree the smartphone market is not a zero sum game, not any more than social networks, etc. I am trying to avoid a war, but explain what I am seeing. To be honest, I am rooting for both. What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. What I also see is Android having more handsets, more manufacturers and carriers, and eventually more users. I think it is fair to say that the new iPhone was nice, but that it wasn't good enough to slow that momentum. If it came off as fanboy, I apologize. Folks get deeply entrenched, so there's no way to make everyone happy.
- swannodette 16y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I've noticed that the Hacker News trolls really come out of the woodwork on Apple related submissions: in terms of the submission, senseless upvoting/downvoting and gradeschool level utterances. I suppose the general quality of the thoughtful submission/discussion on HN has to be offset by something.
  - louismg 16y ago
    I don't even see the option to downvote. Maybe I have to be more of a vet to get that privilege. I appreciate all discussion here, especially that which challenges my assumptions.
    - runevault 16y ago
      Downvote requires ~200 karma, or did when I got it a month or so ago.
brc 16y ago
There's a massive market of people out there whose iPhones will never talk to AT&T ; the rest of the world. I think drilling down on the US carrier is a bit shortsighted in a proper review.
- louismg 16y ago
  There are many sites that cover gadgets and their global hit. What I was doing here was talking about my own personal experience, which I believe is fair. Not everyone shares the same experience, and there are many outlets to share those viewpoints. But here in the US, AT&T is a major problem, and it has been such a bad problem, it has contributed greatly to my looking for an alternative.
hinting 16y ago
How does this stuff get to the top of list? It's 700+ words that ignores basically anything shown today by Apple and instead says only "AT&T sucks!" More generally, flamebait articles that paint this as the great Android vs Apple war are maddening. They are pieces of software, not wrestlers. One does not have to fail for the other to succeed.
- louismg 16y ago
  No idea how it got to the top of the list. As I said elsewhere, I've talked a lot about Android and iPhone lately already, so I didn't think I needed to recap that here. Sorry if it seemed shallow. Quick summary echoed elsewhere: What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. What I also see is Android having more handsets, more manufacturers and carriers, and eventually more users.
  - hinting 16y ago
    What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. Assuming you're the author of the article, you're clearly not paying attention. Show me the android phone that has a 326 dpi screen, a 9mm case, an outrageously good battery life, or the attention to detail that a design-driven company like Apple puts into its products. If you're not willing to admit these things, you're not having an honest discussion. (And this doesn't even get to the annoying Android v Apple deathmatch fallacy)
    - louismg 16y ago
      I am the author and paying attention. I don't intend to quibble over the specs. The ones you mention are 100% correct. This is an honest discussion. Trying to pick a winner on specs in a battle that is not zero-sum is a fool's errand, so I won't waste your time or mine with that. I am simply glad we can talk about Android or iPhone instead of Microsoft or Symbian. :)
    - dagw 16y ago
      Where are you getting "outrageously good battery life" from. The number I've seen from Apple is 40% improvement. 40% better than barely usable is hardly "outrageously good".
Osiris 16y ago
I think it's great that Apple puts so much effort into usability and aesthetics. They put a lot of polish onto their devices and apps that put almost everyone else to shame. It's true that the iPhone was a game changer. It's not surprising to see other companies stepping up to the challenge. As an Android user (myTouch, 128MB RAM sucks), I often wish for the polish of the iPhone and for access to some much better apps, but in the end I can do things that the iPhone could never do. I can tether via USB or WiFi, install apps from websites without using the Market and use free turn-by-turn navigation all while while taking a phone call. With Android I feel like I have freedom to do what I want with my pocket-sided computer without being treated like a baby and told what I can and cannot do with my own personal computing device. I have the freedom to choose phones with keyboards or without, with more RAM or less, from any carrier that I want. For me, that freedom is worth a lot. I think the iPhone 4 is a great device from what I can see and certainly outshines most Android phones, but not by as much as the iPhone outshined BlackBerry at the time. If Google can take time for the next OS to work on the polish, I think they have a chance to really be a solid competitor. Heck, the Droid outsold the iPhone 3G in the first 30 days of sales. That says something.
- hackoder 16y ago
  I recently got the Canadian version of the myTouch (aka HTC Magic, double the RAM) from a G1 and installed a 2.1 ROM and I was very impressed with how well it all worked. I used to find myself torn between the iPhone and Android, but myTouch with the new OS is very smooth. The multi-tasking is excellent- I was reading a book in FBReader last week and when I opened it yesterday it opened from RAM. With the Dolphin Browser, background tabs actually stay loaded in the background, and sites with auto-refresh actually keep content refreshed. For me, the browsing experience with Dolphin and the multi tasking are hard to beat. Also, the open market has some great advantages (along with disadvantages such as crappy apps), for e.g. MortPlayer (which was a great mp3/audiobook player for windows mobile) was recently released for Android without any fear of replicating functionality. Like a lot of others, I'm glad for the iPhone vs Android war. It gives me lots of great, feature-rich phones to choose from, so why pick a side?
- louismg 16y ago
  I think Apple does a fantastic job on nearly all fronts. There are many aspects to the iPhone which the Android should get. I am a hardcore Mac user. I just expect that we are at a tipping point for the market, and that the new iPhone didn't get enough done today to change that momentum.
gmlk 16y ago
Why is it so hard to understand? Apple's objective isn't to become the largest. Apple does not see this as a winner-take-all platform war. Apple's core values are all about it's ability to change things, it's ability to think different, it's ability to move forward without obstacles. Apple wants to make, and sell, the best and most beautiful devices they can imagine. For that they don't need to "own the market", their platform doesn't even need to "win". Whenever Apple thought that their platform was limiting their ability to innovate they have dumped the platform and build a better one. That's the kind of business Apple is. Apple doesn't compete with Nokia for the €40 phone market, Nokia does a great job already in that market. Apple is competing in the high-end smart phone market and only in this small market does it want to "win" in any sense. Apple sometimes finds itself in a situation where there is not competition, that's fine too. Just don't expect Apple to make something cheap for the lower-end of the market. More often then not, someone else will fill that niche soon enough. Apple only needs two things: (one) An open market of multiple competing platforms with shared open standards and protocols so that devices can work together. (two) Something special to differentiate itself by, often a level of quality and total integration, the realization of a coherent idea. About the only thing Apple can't accept is a market where someone else controls an essential part of the market, may it be either some piece of hardware, or software, a protocol, or even the structure of the market itself. To have someone else control the market would mean that someone else controls the speed of change. It would severely limit Apple's ability to innovate. And it's ability to innovate is the heart and soul of Apple.
- louismg 16y ago
  Steve Jobs' comments at D8 underly your take. Apple wants to create greatness and do wonderful things. They are consistent at it. As a Mac user and iPhone and iPad user, I am glad they do. Their innovation pushes the industry. What I am seeing from Android is not just high market penetration, but also quality. They are doing a good enough job to have me switch. That they offered great quality, in addition to working with a top-notch voice carrier made it easier. I am rooting for iPhone and Android. I think that's still allowed. :)
- Lewisham 16y ago
  I think the thing you are missing is not that Apple are happy or contented with low market share/high profit margins (which they are), but usually that they achieve that by succeeding in customer satisfaction. In the US (not everywhere), they aren't hitting that note because they continue to be weighed down by AT&T. All those awesome features don't mean anything if you spend all your time bitching to your friends about dropped calls (which is all I hear from my non-techie friends here). AT&T were shamed at the last WWDC over tethering and such, and they've been shamed again over new price plans which aren't necessarily consumer friendly, over continued awful service, over what Jobs himself said was "things have to get worse to get better... which means things will get really great soon." It used to be that Jobs would cancel a supplier to spite anyone who dared accidentally unveil a release before Apple did, and now it's a company that will let its brand get tarnished by having consumers kicked in the balls for five years straight. Apple's exclusivity deal is anything but friendly to their customer base, and that is the key difference between the Apple of old and the Apple of new. People are upset not because the iPhone isn't great, but because Apple are acting like pricks, like they have done with Google and Google Voice, like they have with other App Store rejections (I find the "replicating iPhone features" particularly rich in comparison with all the spam apps on the App Store), like they have done about saying nothing to the consumer about why AT&T is sucking and why Apple appear to be doing nothing about it. The Apple of old wouldn't have hamstrung their customers the same way Apple is now doing. Putting the user first was their mission. In the US, on the iPhone (less so the iPad), that is starkly not the case.
rebelvc 16y ago
Why Verizon Don't Have the iPhone: http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/28/technology/verizon_iphone/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/28/technology/verizon_iphone/in... New standards are coming in next year. Makes little sense for Apple to make a CDMA phone now.
- chrisbolt 16y ago
  It's not like they can sell a Verizon iPhone without CDMA right after Verizon launches a 4G network. Without backwards compatibility there would be no coverage, it would be worse than AT&T.
credo 16y ago
imo the "Code for Android first, and iPhone/iPad second" suggestion to "Apple developers" has very little merit for most Apple developers For developers, it will make more sense to distinguish between ideology/opinions of bloggers and cold market realities. For starters, revenue returns of Android apps are generally a small fraction of revenue returns for identical iPhone apps in spite of the fact that iPhone owners have a lot more apps to choose from. For another, the Android fragmentation problem makes life even more difficult for developers. As an example, when Twitter released their official Android Twitter app, only 27.3% of Android owners could even consider downloading it. The app wouldn't run on 82.7 of devices because of the fragmentation problem. Now it does make sense for some apps to be released only on Android. For instance, if you think that your app may be rejected by Apple, it will make more sense to just create an Android app. If you're not comfortable with Objective-C, it makes sense to go with Android because Android apps are a lot easier to develop. Btw If first-mover advantage is really the goal, Windows Phone 7 will be a much better option. However, many Android enthusiasts don't like Microsoft. So I suspect that they won't concede this as a great reason for Android developers to do Windows Phone 7 development first and the do Android second :)
- louismg 16y ago
  Sometimes ideologies and opinions are all we poor bloggers can bring to the table. :) Yes, the revenue realities of today are true today. I am hoping that Google can work on the fragmentation issue and get that solved very soon, or at least made much more clear. Second, I think the Chrome Web Store will be a major help toward promoting the discovery and purchase of Android applications. I know first-mover advantage has some weaknesses, but what I see is a growing user base with some needs. Where needs can be met, there is money to be made.
- pyre 16y ago
  > As an example, when Twitter released their official Android Twitter app, only 27.3% of Android owners could even consider downloading it. The app wouldn't run on 82.7 of devices because of the fragmentation problem. Hopefully Twitter will get motivated enough to support Android 110%!
  - 16y ago
10ren 16y ago
Do android phones have multi-touch, or do apple patents prevent this? I'm working on UI trees that can be rearranged with the mouse. It works OK, though a little awkward. I think with a touch screen, it would be incredibly intutive - like rearranging physical blocks.
- louismg 16y ago
  Android did not initially support multi-touch. It does now.
  - 10ren 16y ago
    thanks
Xixi 16y ago
To summarize: AT&T sucks. Well, the good news is that a majority of iPhone users are not using AT&T. Anyway, if I were to develop mobile apps instead of web apps, I would still go with iPhone first : much less splintering. But maybe I'm overestimating this issue ?
ugh 16y ago
AT&T matters only in the US.
jsz0 16y ago
Apple is focusing on the things they think are most important for their customers. Wireless tethering via SmartPhone is a new feature for people so the demand is pretty low right now. It's not clear that it's the ideal way to deliver tethering due to the battery overhead. If you start with 5-6 hours of continuos 3G usage adding wireless tethering is going to bring you down to the <4 hour mark. That badly breaks the sunrise-to-sunset usage most people demand. I think we'll continue to see standalone mifi style devices with their own battery be a preferred solution.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > Wireless tethering via SmartPhone is a new feature for people so the demand is pretty low right now it's also something the iPhone has had since iPhoneOS 3.0 a year ago, via bluetooth...
vijaydev 16y ago
Liked the finishing touch: "A smartphone can't be smart if it's married to a company as dumb as AT&T."
- alttab 16y ago
  Things like "making phone calls" and "sending text messages" is nearly impossible in the Austin area. AT&T tells me its the phone. I go to New York City, it works fine. I guess they actually have a good network there. Go figure. Apple tells me its the network, and I actually believe them. AT&T - if you are reading this - I'm not going to give you my money after you've hiked up your early cancellation fees, but you bet your ass me and everyone in my family will be on a different carrier in less than 2 years. You guys must forget that families listen to their "computer guy" family members. Losing votes like mine is more akin to losing 10. Remember that.
Tycho 16y ago
I think it's important not to forget the iPod effect... ie. people saw other folk with a shiny new iPod, coveted it, then bought one without seriously considering the many other equally-capable alternatives (although arguably the iPod was always technically the best available). The iPhone was originally so ahead of the competition (well, so was the iPod I guess) that its features were the 'wow' factor. It was a sleek, well designed object but I think its functionality overshadowed its beauty. Now that other phones have similar features, the time is right for Apple to revamp the design for aesthetic/form-factor reasons. Think about it: lots of people on the subway with these gorgeous, scratch-proof, slightly retro-looking, ultra-crisp smartphones shimmering beneath layers of glass on both sides, vs. a whole motley crew of less beautiful Android models rarely seen together. Which phone will people want? Also: they compared the new glass to sapphire crystal, which in my experience NEVER gets scratches (its on my wrist watch cover). Does anyone know enough about the hardness of this material Apple are using to assert how scratch-resistant they'll really be?
- gmlk 16y ago
  It's aluminosilicate glass or Al₂SiO₅ with a hardness of about 7 (Mohs scale) at best. Sapphire crystal is Al₂O₃, which has a hardness of 9. So it's hard, but not that hard.

53 points by instcode 16y ago

Enlightenment 16y ago

All you fanboys, please line up to get on your knees for Steve Jobs.

draper 16y ago

Android is the Windows of Mobile. ugly, cheap and clunky.

louismg 16y ago
I would argue Windows Mobile is the Windows of Mobile.
- hboon 16y ago
  That's giving Windows Mobile too much credibility.
  - Osiris 16y ago
    I've only used Windows Mobile on Symbol handheld scanners, and I have to say it's the worst OS EVER. It's a nightmare trying to get that thing configured properly for network connections since it still thinks that Dial-Up with a modem is a first class citizen.
  - bobbyi 16y ago
    Blackberry is actually the Windows of mobile
    - louismg 16y ago
      Now now, BlackBerry is actually pretty good at e-mail. That's something.
      - bruceboughton 16y ago
        For a device designed almost exclusively for email, I'd say BlackBerry is astoundingly poor at email.
- pkulak 16y ago
  Wow. That one was served up t-ball style.
  - louismg 16y ago
    True. It's been easier than some of the other comments here that have been in disagreement.

bdr 16y ago

I'd rather have speed and battery life than tethering. If "speed and battery life measures are subjective" is all you have to say, that sounds like intentional ignorance.

lpolovets 16y ago
Fully agree that both sides of the coin are important. However, of the following potential developments: 1) New Android phones become much faster and/or have longer battery lives 2) New iPhones become much more open and less locked-down I think #1 is much more likely.
- papachito 16y ago
  Froyo is already much faster.
- louismg 16y ago
  Agreed on this comment 100%. I think Android is going to have more handsets, manufacturers, carriers, and eventually users. Their products are going to continually improve. The recent past has shown momentum on the innovation side that is lapping iPhone, I believe. I don't think iPhone is going to open up at quite a rate.
  - bruceboughton 16y ago
    Everyone seems to think that Android will eventually dominate the market because "the products are going to continually improve". Guess what, so is iPhone. Apple have made it clear that this is their primary business. They're in it to win it. This is not Google's primary business--it is a loss leader to support that business. I think it's far from inevitable that Android will win out (pettiness of the Apple vs. Google battle aside).
    - louismg 16y ago
      I look forward to iPhone getting better. I understand your viewpoints as well. I hope the original article did not sound petty. That was not the intent.

dieterrams 16y ago

How knee-deep in a silly Android vs iPhone fanboy war do you have to be to write a long post addressing the supposed presumption that iPhone 4 was going to slow Android down? What sensible person is even constructing thoughts along these lines? Many kinds of critiques, positive and negative, of both platforms are welcome. But this sort of fanboy service horse race punditry is not. At this stage, the smartphone market is not a zero sum game. Nobody has to slow anybody down. Stop polarizing this space.

louismg 16y ago
I agree the smartphone market is not a zero sum game, not any more than social networks, etc. I am trying to avoid a war, but explain what I am seeing. To be honest, I am rooting for both. What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. What I also see is Android having more handsets, more manufacturers and carriers, and eventually more users. I think it is fair to say that the new iPhone was nice, but that it wasn't good enough to slow that momentum. If it came off as fanboy, I apologize. Folks get deeply entrenched, so there's no way to make everyone happy.
swannodette 16y ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I've noticed that the Hacker News trolls really come out of the woodwork on Apple related submissions: in terms of the submission, senseless upvoting/downvoting and gradeschool level utterances. I suppose the general quality of the thoughtful submission/discussion on HN has to be offset by something.
- louismg 16y ago
  I don't even see the option to downvote. Maybe I have to be more of a vet to get that privilege. I appreciate all discussion here, especially that which challenges my assumptions.
  - runevault 16y ago
    Downvote requires ~200 karma, or did when I got it a month or so ago.

brc 16y ago

There's a massive market of people out there whose iPhones will never talk to AT&T ; the rest of the world. I think drilling down on the US carrier is a bit shortsighted in a proper review.

louismg 16y ago
There are many sites that cover gadgets and their global hit. What I was doing here was talking about my own personal experience, which I believe is fair. Not everyone shares the same experience, and there are many outlets to share those viewpoints. But here in the US, AT&T is a major problem, and it has been such a bad problem, it has contributed greatly to my looking for an alternative.

hinting 16y ago

How does this stuff get to the top of list? It's 700+ words that ignores basically anything shown today by Apple and instead says only "AT&T sucks!" More generally, flamebait articles that paint this as the great Android vs Apple war are maddening. They are pieces of software, not wrestlers. One does not have to fail for the other to succeed.

louismg 16y ago
No idea how it got to the top of the list. As I said elsewhere, I've talked a lot about Android and iPhone lately already, so I didn't think I needed to recap that here. Sorry if it seemed shallow. Quick summary echoed elsewhere: What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. What I also see is Android having more handsets, more manufacturers and carriers, and eventually more users.
- hinting 16y ago
  What I saw today was iPhone achieving parity with some of Android's features. Assuming you're the author of the article, you're clearly not paying attention. Show me the android phone that has a 326 dpi screen, a 9mm case, an outrageously good battery life, or the attention to detail that a design-driven company like Apple puts into its products. If you're not willing to admit these things, you're not having an honest discussion. (And this doesn't even get to the annoying Android v Apple deathmatch fallacy)
  - louismg 16y ago
    I am the author and paying attention. I don't intend to quibble over the specs. The ones you mention are 100% correct. This is an honest discussion. Trying to pick a winner on specs in a battle that is not zero-sum is a fool's errand, so I won't waste your time or mine with that. I am simply glad we can talk about Android or iPhone instead of Microsoft or Symbian. :)
  - dagw 16y ago
    Where are you getting "outrageously good battery life" from. The number I've seen from Apple is 40% improvement. 40% better than barely usable is hardly "outrageously good".

Osiris 16y ago

I think it's great that Apple puts so much effort into usability and aesthetics. They put a lot of polish onto their devices and apps that put almost everyone else to shame. It's true that the iPhone was a game changer. It's not surprising to see other companies stepping up to the challenge. As an Android user (myTouch, 128MB RAM sucks), I often wish for the polish of the iPhone and for access to some much better apps, but in the end I can do things that the iPhone could never do. I can tether via USB or WiFi, install apps from websites without using the Market and use free turn-by-turn navigation all while while taking a phone call. With Android I feel like I have freedom to do what I want with my pocket-sided computer without being treated like a baby and told what I can and cannot do with my own personal computing device. I have the freedom to choose phones with keyboards or without, with more RAM or less, from any carrier that I want. For me, that freedom is worth a lot. I think the iPhone 4 is a great device from what I can see and certainly outshines most Android phones, but not by as much as the iPhone outshined BlackBerry at the time. If Google can take time for the next OS to work on the polish, I think they have a chance to really be a solid competitor. Heck, the Droid outsold the iPhone 3G in the first 30 days of sales. That says something.

hackoder 16y ago
I recently got the Canadian version of the myTouch (aka HTC Magic, double the RAM) from a G1 and installed a 2.1 ROM and I was very impressed with how well it all worked. I used to find myself torn between the iPhone and Android, but myTouch with the new OS is very smooth. The multi-tasking is excellent- I was reading a book in FBReader last week and when I opened it yesterday it opened from RAM. With the Dolphin Browser, background tabs actually stay loaded in the background, and sites with auto-refresh actually keep content refreshed. For me, the browsing experience with Dolphin and the multi tasking are hard to beat. Also, the open market has some great advantages (along with disadvantages such as crappy apps), for e.g. MortPlayer (which was a great mp3/audiobook player for windows mobile) was recently released for Android without any fear of replicating functionality. Like a lot of others, I'm glad for the iPhone vs Android war. It gives me lots of great, feature-rich phones to choose from, so why pick a side?
louismg 16y ago
I think Apple does a fantastic job on nearly all fronts. There are many aspects to the iPhone which the Android should get. I am a hardcore Mac user. I just expect that we are at a tipping point for the market, and that the new iPhone didn't get enough done today to change that momentum.

gmlk 16y ago

Why is it so hard to understand? Apple's objective isn't to become the largest. Apple does not see this as a winner-take-all platform war. Apple's core values are all about it's ability to change things, it's ability to think different, it's ability to move forward without obstacles. Apple wants to make, and sell, the best and most beautiful devices they can imagine. For that they don't need to "own the market", their platform doesn't even need to "win". Whenever Apple thought that their platform was limiting their ability to innovate they have dumped the platform and build a better one. That's the kind of business Apple is. Apple doesn't compete with Nokia for the €40 phone market, Nokia does a great job already in that market. Apple is competing in the high-end smart phone market and only in this small market does it want to "win" in any sense. Apple sometimes finds itself in a situation where there is not competition, that's fine too. Just don't expect Apple to make something cheap for the lower-end of the market. More often then not, someone else will fill that niche soon enough. Apple only needs two things: (one) An open market of multiple competing platforms with shared open standards and protocols so that devices can work together. (two) Something special to differentiate itself by, often a level of quality and total integration, the realization of a coherent idea. About the only thing Apple can't accept is a market where someone else controls an essential part of the market, may it be either some piece of hardware, or software, a protocol, or even the structure of the market itself. To have someone else control the market would mean that someone else controls the speed of change. It would severely limit Apple's ability to innovate. And it's ability to innovate is the heart and soul of Apple.

louismg 16y ago
Steve Jobs' comments at D8 underly your take. Apple wants to create greatness and do wonderful things. They are consistent at it. As a Mac user and iPhone and iPad user, I am glad they do. Their innovation pushes the industry. What I am seeing from Android is not just high market penetration, but also quality. They are doing a good enough job to have me switch. That they offered great quality, in addition to working with a top-notch voice carrier made it easier. I am rooting for iPhone and Android. I think that's still allowed. :)
Lewisham 16y ago
I think the thing you are missing is not that Apple are happy or contented with low market share/high profit margins (which they are), but usually that they achieve that by succeeding in customer satisfaction. In the US (not everywhere), they aren't hitting that note because they continue to be weighed down by AT&T. All those awesome features don't mean anything if you spend all your time bitching to your friends about dropped calls (which is all I hear from my non-techie friends here). AT&T were shamed at the last WWDC over tethering and such, and they've been shamed again over new price plans which aren't necessarily consumer friendly, over continued awful service, over what Jobs himself said was "things have to get worse to get better... which means things will get really great soon." It used to be that Jobs would cancel a supplier to spite anyone who dared accidentally unveil a release before Apple did, and now it's a company that will let its brand get tarnished by having consumers kicked in the balls for five years straight. Apple's exclusivity deal is anything but friendly to their customer base, and that is the key difference between the Apple of old and the Apple of new. People are upset not because the iPhone isn't great, but because Apple are acting like pricks, like they have done with Google and Google Voice, like they have with other App Store rejections (I find the "replicating iPhone features" particularly rich in comparison with all the spam apps on the App Store), like they have done about saying nothing to the consumer about why AT&T is sucking and why Apple appear to be doing nothing about it. The Apple of old wouldn't have hamstrung their customers the same way Apple is now doing. Putting the user first was their mission. In the US, on the iPhone (less so the iPad), that is starkly not the case.

rebelvc 16y ago

Why Verizon Don't Have the iPhone: http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/28/technology/verizon_iphone/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/28/technology/verizon_iphone/in... New standards are coming in next year. Makes little sense for Apple to make a CDMA phone now.

chrisbolt 16y ago
It's not like they can sell a Verizon iPhone without CDMA right after Verizon launches a 4G network. Without backwards compatibility there would be no coverage, it would be worse than AT&T.

credo 16y ago

imo the "Code for Android first, and iPhone/iPad second" suggestion to "Apple developers" has very little merit for most Apple developers For developers, it will make more sense to distinguish between ideology/opinions of bloggers and cold market realities. For starters, revenue returns of Android apps are generally a small fraction of revenue returns for identical iPhone apps in spite of the fact that iPhone owners have a lot more apps to choose from. For another, the Android fragmentation problem makes life even more difficult for developers. As an example, when Twitter released their official Android Twitter app, only 27.3% of Android owners could even consider downloading it. The app wouldn't run on 82.7 of devices because of the fragmentation problem. Now it does make sense for some apps to be released only on Android. For instance, if you think that your app may be rejected by Apple, it will make more sense to just create an Android app. If you're not comfortable with Objective-C, it makes sense to go with Android because Android apps are a lot easier to develop. Btw If first-mover advantage is really the goal, Windows Phone 7 will be a much better option. However, many Android enthusiasts don't like Microsoft. So I suspect that they won't concede this as a great reason for Android developers to do Windows Phone 7 development first and the do Android second :)

louismg 16y ago
Sometimes ideologies and opinions are all we poor bloggers can bring to the table. :) Yes, the revenue realities of today are true today. I am hoping that Google can work on the fragmentation issue and get that solved very soon, or at least made much more clear. Second, I think the Chrome Web Store will be a major help toward promoting the discovery and purchase of Android applications. I know first-mover advantage has some weaknesses, but what I see is a growing user base with some needs. Where needs can be met, there is money to be made.
pyre 16y ago
> As an example, when Twitter released their official Android Twitter app, only 27.3% of Android owners could even consider downloading it. The app wouldn't run on 82.7 of devices because of the fragmentation problem. Hopefully Twitter will get motivated enough to support Android 110%!
- 16y ago

10ren 16y ago

Do android phones have multi-touch, or do apple patents prevent this? I'm working on UI trees that can be rearranged with the mouse. It works OK, though a little awkward. I think with a touch screen, it would be incredibly intutive - like rearranging physical blocks.

louismg 16y ago
Android did not initially support multi-touch. It does now.
- 10ren 16y ago
  thanks

Xixi 16y ago

To summarize: AT&T sucks. Well, the good news is that a majority of iPhone users are not using AT&T. Anyway, if I were to develop mobile apps instead of web apps, I would still go with iPhone first : much less splintering. But maybe I'm overestimating this issue ?

ugh 16y ago

AT&T matters only in the US.

jsz0 16y ago

Apple is focusing on the things they think are most important for their customers. Wireless tethering via SmartPhone is a new feature for people so the demand is pretty low right now. It's not clear that it's the ideal way to deliver tethering due to the battery overhead. If you start with 5-6 hours of continuos 3G usage adding wireless tethering is going to bring you down to the <4 hour mark. That badly breaks the sunrise-to-sunset usage most people demand. I think we'll continue to see standalone mifi style devices with their own battery be a preferred solution.

masklinn 16y ago
> Wireless tethering via SmartPhone is a new feature for people so the demand is pretty low right now it's also something the iPhone has had since iPhoneOS 3.0 a year ago, via bluetooth...

vijaydev 16y ago

Liked the finishing touch: "A smartphone can't be smart if it's married to a company as dumb as AT&T."

alttab 16y ago
Things like "making phone calls" and "sending text messages" is nearly impossible in the Austin area. AT&T tells me its the phone. I go to New York City, it works fine. I guess they actually have a good network there. Go figure. Apple tells me its the network, and I actually believe them. AT&T - if you are reading this - I'm not going to give you my money after you've hiked up your early cancellation fees, but you bet your ass me and everyone in my family will be on a different carrier in less than 2 years. You guys must forget that families listen to their "computer guy" family members. Losing votes like mine is more akin to losing 10. Remember that.

Tycho 16y ago

I think it's important not to forget the iPod effect... ie. people saw other folk with a shiny new iPod, coveted it, then bought one without seriously considering the many other equally-capable alternatives (although arguably the iPod was always technically the best available). The iPhone was originally so ahead of the competition (well, so was the iPod I guess) that its features were the 'wow' factor. It was a sleek, well designed object but I think its functionality overshadowed its beauty. Now that other phones have similar features, the time is right for Apple to revamp the design for aesthetic/form-factor reasons. Think about it: lots of people on the subway with these gorgeous, scratch-proof, slightly retro-looking, ultra-crisp smartphones shimmering beneath layers of glass on both sides, vs. a whole motley crew of less beautiful Android models rarely seen together. Which phone will people want? Also: they compared the new glass to sapphire crystal, which in my experience NEVER gets scratches (its on my wrist watch cover). Does anyone know enough about the hardness of this material Apple are using to assert how scratch-resistant they'll really be?

gmlk 16y ago
It's aluminosilicate glass or Al₂SiO₅ with a hardness of about 7 (Mohs scale) at best. Sapphire crystal is Al₂O₃, which has a hardness of 9. So it's hard, but not that hard.