3 ms·

Then regulate what you dislike: making a mess, being loud, etc. Or do you want to ban motorcycles because some riders have too-loud mufflers?

by xapata 10y ago

emodendroket 10y ago
Which one of these things do you think is easier to enforce? Would you prefer to have to call the police with a noise complaint regularly or not have noise in the first place?
- xapata 10y ago
  I think that the AirBnB host will be careful about what guests are permitted after the first noise complaint, risking being evicted. Perhaps just knowing the rules might avoid the issue. After all, that's how you expect any AirBnB regulation to take effect.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    > I think that the AirBnB host will be careful about what guests are permitted after the first noise complaint, risking being evicted. How about a simple law: don't violate zoning regulations. Its no different than in the "good ol days" when you weren't allowed to run a Bed-and-Breakfast Inn out of your own home (unless you lived in a commercial district, or otherwise lived in a district with more lax Zoning laws)
    - xapata 10y ago
      I prefer living in a district with lax zoning laws. They're always much more enjoyable.
      - dragontamer 10y ago
        Not everyone has the mobility to move around towns. People gotta plant themselves somewhere and start working with the local politics of the towns that they live in. Which might be even encouraged by proper zoning laws. Long-term tenants may become more interested in local politics (the efficacy of local schools, security, and local decisions). Even those who are more economically mobile should be "good citizens" and participate in local decisions. Carrying on with that: for those who have little-to-no economic mobility (and there's plenty of them), Zoning Regulations and how their local neighborhoods act and work are incredibly important.
        xapata 10y ago
        Yes, but in practice zoning laws, however well-intentioned, have had the effect of suppressing affordable housing, public transit, and local businesses. Some of my favorite neighborhoods are the result of an area being re-zoned to allow mixed-use development. Over and over it's been a successful way to transform a blighted, abandoned area into a vibrant neighborhood. And no, that's not just gentrification. I guess that demonstrates your point that the poor would benefit from being informed, active participants in local legislation. They aren't. Encouraging more local legislation isn't going to change who participates in the conversation.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        Well it's not the "favorite" configuration of everyone, and many such people own homes in their communities and can't easily move. Why shouldn't they have a say?
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    Evicted? Someone running an airbnb is almost certainly violating their lease in the first place unless they own the place.
    - xapata 10y ago
      If you can't evict, then fine the owners enough to make them care.
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        Theoretically maybe it's possible but look at what happened to Boston neighborhoods where a lot of homes started being rented to college kids. Especially the way the landlords don't really give a damn because they make enough profit that any fines they incur are just the cost of doing business. Much easier to have a simple, no exceptions rule than a complex schedule of fines and enforcement for violations.
        xapata 10y ago
        That's a good comparison. My take is that writing "simple, no exceptions" laws is very difficult. It's incredibly hard to draw what lawyers call a "bright line" between good neighborly behavior and bad behavior. Further, I suspect the hotel lobby will try to sneak in some far overreaching wording as part of stopping some bad AirBnB hosts. I don't trust them to write something truly clear. For example, will their laws make renting your spare bedroom on Craigslist illegal? Quite likely they'll try to. In contrast, a schedule of fines for things like noise violations already exists! It's just time to update the fines and start enforcing them. One major problem with misdemeanor laws is they tend to hardcode the dollar amounts and forget to update them with inflation.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        I don't think it's really that hard to ban short-term rentals. If you want to still allow long-term rentals you can set a minimum length of any such agreement. Certainly it's less complicated than addressing every single undesirable thing that could result from having them.

Then regulate what you dislike: making a mess, being loud, etc. Or do you want to ban motorcycles because some riders have too-loud mufflers?

by xapata 10y ago

Then regulate what you dislike: making a mess, being loud, etc. Or do you want to ban motorcycles because some riders have too-loud mufflers?

emodendroket 10y ago

Which one of these things do you think is easier to enforce? Would you prefer to have to call the police with a noise complaint regularly or not have noise in the first place?

xapata 10y ago
I think that the AirBnB host will be careful about what guests are permitted after the first noise complaint, risking being evicted. Perhaps just knowing the rules might avoid the issue. After all, that's how you expect any AirBnB regulation to take effect.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  > I think that the AirBnB host will be careful about what guests are permitted after the first noise complaint, risking being evicted. How about a simple law: don't violate zoning regulations. Its no different than in the "good ol days" when you weren't allowed to run a Bed-and-Breakfast Inn out of your own home (unless you lived in a commercial district, or otherwise lived in a district with more lax Zoning laws)
  - xapata 10y ago
    I prefer living in a district with lax zoning laws. They're always much more enjoyable.
    - dragontamer 10y ago
      Not everyone has the mobility to move around towns. People gotta plant themselves somewhere and start working with the local politics of the towns that they live in. Which might be even encouraged by proper zoning laws. Long-term tenants may become more interested in local politics (the efficacy of local schools, security, and local decisions). Even those who are more economically mobile should be "good citizens" and participate in local decisions. Carrying on with that: for those who have little-to-no economic mobility (and there's plenty of them), Zoning Regulations and how their local neighborhoods act and work are incredibly important.
      - xapata 10y ago
        Yes, but in practice zoning laws, however well-intentioned, have had the effect of suppressing affordable housing, public transit, and local businesses. Some of my favorite neighborhoods are the result of an area being re-zoned to allow mixed-use development. Over and over it's been a successful way to transform a blighted, abandoned area into a vibrant neighborhood. And no, that's not just gentrification. I guess that demonstrates your point that the poor would benefit from being informed, active participants in local legislation. They aren't. Encouraging more local legislation isn't going to change who participates in the conversation.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        Well it's not the "favorite" configuration of everyone, and many such people own homes in their communities and can't easily move. Why shouldn't they have a say?
- emodendroket 10y ago
  Evicted? Someone running an airbnb is almost certainly violating their lease in the first place unless they own the place.
  - xapata 10y ago
    If you can't evict, then fine the owners enough to make them care.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      Theoretically maybe it's possible but look at what happened to Boston neighborhoods where a lot of homes started being rented to college kids. Especially the way the landlords don't really give a damn because they make enough profit that any fines they incur are just the cost of doing business. Much easier to have a simple, no exceptions rule than a complex schedule of fines and enforcement for violations.
      - xapata 10y ago
        That's a good comparison. My take is that writing "simple, no exceptions" laws is very difficult. It's incredibly hard to draw what lawyers call a "bright line" between good neighborly behavior and bad behavior. Further, I suspect the hotel lobby will try to sneak in some far overreaching wording as part of stopping some bad AirBnB hosts. I don't trust them to write something truly clear. For example, will their laws make renting your spare bedroom on Craigslist illegal? Quite likely they'll try to. In contrast, a schedule of fines for things like noise violations already exists! It's just time to update the fines and start enforcing them. One major problem with misdemeanor laws is they tend to hardcode the dollar amounts and forget to update them with inflation.
        emodendroket 10y ago
        I don't think it's really that hard to ban short-term rentals. If you want to still allow long-term rentals you can set a minimum length of any such agreement. Certainly it's less complicated than addressing every single undesirable thing that could result from having them.