8 ms·

Isn't it possible that Apple developed this filesystem primarily to be used with their SSD based devices which are using their custom controllers, which simply

Isn't it possible that Apple developed this filesystem primarily to be used with their SSD based devices which are using their custom controllers, which simply takes care of this low level protection? SSD controllers are said to be very complicated piece of proprietary technologies, and I believe they are using sophisticated algorithms for integrity protection.

vetinari 9y ago
Apple users use external (USB, Thunderbolt) drives too, where they would not get this special hypothetical protection.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  Clearly telegraphing Apple's intent to release new "Apple approved (and licensed)" storage "accessories" for their systems.
  - toyg 9y ago
    Lock-in all the things!
    - justinjlynn 9y ago
      Indeed, sure would be a shame for anything to happen to your data because you chose not to use drives equipped with iStoreSafe(tm) technology by Apple(tm).
      - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
        Brings back the days when Mac users were paying a 3x markup for standard SCSI drives.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - cmurf 9y ago
    That'd just be going back to their historical roots. You used to only be able to buy Apple RAM and Apple drives. All parts were Apple parts, there wasn't anything else. And look, we're already back to, you can only get RAM from Apple, because so many of their products come with it soldered on the logic board with no upgrade path.
  - tedd4u 9y ago
    Maybe, but isn't the recent trend at Apple to discontinue desktop-only accessories (like monitors)? https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/apple-reportedly-stops-developing-airport-wifi-router-products-moving-employees-to-other-projects/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/apple-reportedly-stops-develo... https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/23/12020510/apple-thunderbolt-display-discontinued https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/23/12020510/apple-thunderbol...
    - Analemma_ 9y ago
      At the recent Mac Pro announcement, they also said there would be a new Apple-branded monitor, so they're not out of that game completely.
  - zeveb 9y ago
    It's courage!
asveikau 9y ago
Don't buy the hype or fall into the magical thinking. Disks fail. Apple tried to handwave it away.
- coldtea 9y ago
  And yet, neither Windows, nor Linux, nor macOS does anything special about it for consumer/90% of professional use, and the sky hasn't fallen.
  - asveikau 9y ago
    Nitpick: I can think of one thing NTFS does proactively about this problem. Just not anything good. Googled and found: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/doxley/2008/10/29/self-healing-ntfs/ https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/doxley/2008/10/29/self-h... In my time at Microsoft I did see a number of workarounds for bad disks in Windows source, in ntfs.sys and elsewhere. However I agree with your overall assessment, it's not as if anyone is running zfs or similar as a default.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    Earlier cars were terrible death traps and we were told crashes at highway speeds were unsurvivable. People died in mangled messes but the sky didn't fall then either. The status quo is rarely a sufficient argument because the human race is pretty much terrible at everything improving things only slowly, incrementally accruing useful strategies and procedures. We built bridges well via centuries of practice, software is less mature.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >The status quo is rarely a sufficient argument And I didn't say it is. My answer was to the parent who singled-out Apple as somehow special in neglecting this.
      - michaelmrose 9y ago
        They are writing a new filesystem today and neglecting this they are special and not in a good way.
michaelmrose 9y ago
This is bad logic. The benefits derived from additional data integrity assurances would be additive. A special controller isn't a valid substitute for other measures apple hasn't historically been any good at designing filesystems and they aren't any good now.

vetinari 9y ago

Apple users use external (USB, Thunderbolt) drives too, where they would not get this special hypothetical protection.

justinjlynn 9y ago
Clearly telegraphing Apple's intent to release new "Apple approved (and licensed)" storage "accessories" for their systems.
- toyg 9y ago
  Lock-in all the things!
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    Indeed, sure would be a shame for anything to happen to your data because you chose not to use drives equipped with iStoreSafe(tm) technology by Apple(tm).
    - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
      Brings back the days when Mac users were paying a 3x markup for standard SCSI drives.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- cmurf 9y ago
  That'd just be going back to their historical roots. You used to only be able to buy Apple RAM and Apple drives. All parts were Apple parts, there wasn't anything else. And look, we're already back to, you can only get RAM from Apple, because so many of their products come with it soldered on the logic board with no upgrade path.
- tedd4u 9y ago
  Maybe, but isn't the recent trend at Apple to discontinue desktop-only accessories (like monitors)? https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/apple-reportedly-stops-developing-airport-wifi-router-products-moving-employees-to-other-projects/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/21/apple-reportedly-stops-develo... https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/23/12020510/apple-thunderbolt-display-discontinued https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/23/12020510/apple-thunderbol...
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    At the recent Mac Pro announcement, they also said there would be a new Apple-branded monitor, so they're not out of that game completely.
- zeveb 9y ago
  It's courage!

asveikau 9y ago

Don't buy the hype or fall into the magical thinking. Disks fail. Apple tried to handwave it away.

coldtea 9y ago
And yet, neither Windows, nor Linux, nor macOS does anything special about it for consumer/90% of professional use, and the sky hasn't fallen.
- asveikau 9y ago
  Nitpick: I can think of one thing NTFS does proactively about this problem. Just not anything good. Googled and found: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/doxley/2008/10/29/self-healing-ntfs/ https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/doxley/2008/10/29/self-h... In my time at Microsoft I did see a number of workarounds for bad disks in Windows source, in ntfs.sys and elsewhere. However I agree with your overall assessment, it's not as if anyone is running zfs or similar as a default.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Earlier cars were terrible death traps and we were told crashes at highway speeds were unsurvivable. People died in mangled messes but the sky didn't fall then either. The status quo is rarely a sufficient argument because the human race is pretty much terrible at everything improving things only slowly, incrementally accruing useful strategies and procedures. We built bridges well via centuries of practice, software is less mature.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >The status quo is rarely a sufficient argument And I didn't say it is. My answer was to the parent who singled-out Apple as somehow special in neglecting this.
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      They are writing a new filesystem today and neglecting this they are special and not in a good way.

michaelmrose 9y ago

This is bad logic. The benefits derived from additional data integrity assurances would be additive. A special controller isn't a valid substitute for other measures apple hasn't historically been any good at designing filesystems and they aren't any good now.