6 ms·

I appreciate his comments about SV being special because it's actually acceptable to be ambitious, you're allowed to be someone who in most circles would be con

I appreciate his comments about SV being special because it's actually acceptable to be ambitious, you're allowed to be someone who in most circles would be considered tedious because you only think and talk about your serious projects, probably sometimes met with yawns and "isn't that nice." SV is special in this regards. I'm now realizing that's one of the main reasons I'll probably never move back home. Family, old friends, the culture of other cities will, in reality, put a bunch of shitty social pressure on you unless you're already rich and successful. As a side note, I still bet most of this forum is against this ambitious personality, affirming at the end of the day that "there is more to life than your projects, go out and live, meet someone, fill out your social schedule, etc." That's certainly all wonderful, but it's the same social fabric that exists everywhere that's not Silicon Valley. Sam put his finger on something that is uniquely SV, and I think it's something to protect and cherish. As another side note, I think it's kind of a shame SV is migrating to SF, because SF doesn't afford that protection. There are locals everywhere who despise the ambitious entrepreneur techie type. It's a bit of a struggle in subtle and sometimes unsubtle ways. It's obviously a face of the real world with class tension undertones and what not, but outside of maybe a few bubbles in the city which seem to me to all be in SoMa, it's just not a great environment if you are one of these ambitious personalities IMO. That and there are no late night hacker friendly cafes... why?

eiliant 10y ago
Don't agree at all, I find the same attitude in many major cities in the world ex. Sao Paulo, Shanghai, NYC, Tokyo and others - it also strongly depends on who you talk to.
- orthoganol 10y ago
  Yeah I've lived in a lot of places and I could see NYC (and I could see Hong Kong too; most definitely not Tokyo, nor Shanghai nor Sao Paulo unless you're just talking about wealthy neighborhood ex-pat communities). I think it's an env that's hard to find, at its scale anyways.
  - alphonsegaston 10y ago
    That's an odd thing to say about Tokyo, considering it's something like a mixture of LA and NYC. Anyone who wants to make it in the arts or entertainment (both large industries in Japan), moves to Tokyo. Yes, they don't (and maybe never will) have the same kind of tech entrepreneurship as the valley, but there's no shortage of ambitious people there.
GuiA 10y ago
It's uniquely SV only for those who spend all their life in SV. Go to NYC, go to LA, go to London, go to Tokyo, and you will find very ambitious and driven people working hard on their acting/band/fashion label/non profit/etc. Those people also tend to be way more open about the forms creativity other than their own takes, whereas the SV techie entrepreneurs tend to think that anything other than changing the world with a billion dollar startup is a waste of time. Which is why on a personal level, after about a decade in SV, I'm very much looking forward to leaving soon, having realized that ambition, fulfilment, and impact can be realized in ways other than yet another iOS or rails app, and am getting tired of the monoculture.
- orthoganol 10y ago
  > having realized that ambition, fulfilment, and impact can be realized in ways other than yet another iOS or rails app. If you think that's SV you're probably not the ambitious personality type I was referring to, while also being unaware of what's getting the focus these days in SV (which is most certainly AI/ deep learning). I've lived in more cities (3 months+) than most in this forum being a perennial digital nomad (And I don't know why people keep citing Tokyo - the culture is not pro entrepreneurship for young people at all, there is no real concept of a coworking spaces, etc. I did however meet a lot of white techies from SF so maybe that's why people are getting that impression!). It's a certain type of ambition/ personality that's encouraged here, for better or worse.
  - 59nadir 10y ago
    "3+ months" is a pretty vague timeframe (or not a time_frame_ at all, actually). Unless you already know the language and integrate extremely well into the culture of a country, spending less than a few years there won't mean that you know much about the country and its opportunities. Superficially, spending a few months in a place sounds like you'll probably "get it", but I don't believe for a second that you learned much of value from each country with this lifestyle. You seem to have seen a lot of places, but you haven't lived them.
- danhak 10y ago
  Thank you for putting this so well, my eyes were rolling so hard at the parent comment, which reads like a parody of SV self-importance--as if SV is the only place in the world where people work hard on things they are passionate about. My writer and filmmaker friends here in L.A. are every bit as ambitious as my entrepreneur friends up in the Bay Area. And their ambition is not only "acceptable" but celebrated. It is precisely this ultra-narrow conception of worthwhile human endeavors that has kept me from moving up north. I love working in tech in a city where people are pursuing a huge diversity of interests and careers.
dorianm 10y ago
Today this coffee shop in SoMa closed at 6:30... Seems like most people are going for either coworking spaces (like WeWork and workshop cafe) or Noisebridge for instance
dogecoinbase 10y ago
That and there are no late night hacker friendly cafes... why? Because you can't pay rent in SF by hosting a bunch of people who take up tables but don't buy much?
tim333 10y ago
I'm not sure that the issue is that it's not acceptable to be ambitious in non SV places. It just that people look at the local track record and figure things on that basis. I'm sure in cities with hardly any successful startups there are ambitious people but those chatting to them are likely to think they won't make it because of the lack of others doing so. In the valley however there are a lot who've made it.
norswap 10y ago
Seems to me, most of these entrepreneurs could do with a bit more of yawning in their faces in order to come back down to earth. Don't get me wrong, many good things come out of silicon valley, and it's sometimes hard to judge the worth of an idea. But there's undeniably a lot of half-hearted bullcrap whose sole purpose is to make a quick buck. And on a personal level, the ideas are not the only things that are full of hot air.
cholantesh 10y ago
>As a side note, I still bet most of this forum is against this ambitious personality, affirming at the end of the day that "there is more to life than your projects, go out and live, meet someone, fill out your social schedule, etc." Sounds like you are conflating being ambitious with being entrepreneurial. It's possible to have a meaningful career without starting your own business, not to mention building something of value without it. And all of this is possible outside of the valley. There is a particular trajectory for a business that the valley is amenable to systemically and culturally, but that means very little.

eiliant 10y ago

Don't agree at all, I find the same attitude in many major cities in the world ex. Sao Paulo, Shanghai, NYC, Tokyo and others - it also strongly depends on who you talk to.

orthoganol 10y ago
Yeah I've lived in a lot of places and I could see NYC (and I could see Hong Kong too; most definitely not Tokyo, nor Shanghai nor Sao Paulo unless you're just talking about wealthy neighborhood ex-pat communities). I think it's an env that's hard to find, at its scale anyways.
- alphonsegaston 10y ago
  That's an odd thing to say about Tokyo, considering it's something like a mixture of LA and NYC. Anyone who wants to make it in the arts or entertainment (both large industries in Japan), moves to Tokyo. Yes, they don't (and maybe never will) have the same kind of tech entrepreneurship as the valley, but there's no shortage of ambitious people there.

GuiA 10y ago

It's uniquely SV only for those who spend all their life in SV. Go to NYC, go to LA, go to London, go to Tokyo, and you will find very ambitious and driven people working hard on their acting/band/fashion label/non profit/etc. Those people also tend to be way more open about the forms creativity other than their own takes, whereas the SV techie entrepreneurs tend to think that anything other than changing the world with a billion dollar startup is a waste of time. Which is why on a personal level, after about a decade in SV, I'm very much looking forward to leaving soon, having realized that ambition, fulfilment, and impact can be realized in ways other than yet another iOS or rails app, and am getting tired of the monoculture.

orthoganol 10y ago
> having realized that ambition, fulfilment, and impact can be realized in ways other than yet another iOS or rails app. If you think that's SV you're probably not the ambitious personality type I was referring to, while also being unaware of what's getting the focus these days in SV (which is most certainly AI/ deep learning). I've lived in more cities (3 months+) than most in this forum being a perennial digital nomad (And I don't know why people keep citing Tokyo - the culture is not pro entrepreneurship for young people at all, there is no real concept of a coworking spaces, etc. I did however meet a lot of white techies from SF so maybe that's why people are getting that impression!). It's a certain type of ambition/ personality that's encouraged here, for better or worse.
- 59nadir 10y ago
  "3+ months" is a pretty vague timeframe (or not a time_frame_ at all, actually). Unless you already know the language and integrate extremely well into the culture of a country, spending less than a few years there won't mean that you know much about the country and its opportunities. Superficially, spending a few months in a place sounds like you'll probably "get it", but I don't believe for a second that you learned much of value from each country with this lifestyle. You seem to have seen a lot of places, but you haven't lived them.
danhak 10y ago
Thank you for putting this so well, my eyes were rolling so hard at the parent comment, which reads like a parody of SV self-importance--as if SV is the only place in the world where people work hard on things they are passionate about. My writer and filmmaker friends here in L.A. are every bit as ambitious as my entrepreneur friends up in the Bay Area. And their ambition is not only "acceptable" but celebrated. It is precisely this ultra-narrow conception of worthwhile human endeavors that has kept me from moving up north. I love working in tech in a city where people are pursuing a huge diversity of interests and careers.

dorianm 10y ago

Today this coffee shop in SoMa closed at 6:30... Seems like most people are going for either coworking spaces (like WeWork and workshop cafe) or Noisebridge for instance

dogecoinbase 10y ago

That and there are no late night hacker friendly cafes... why? Because you can't pay rent in SF by hosting a bunch of people who take up tables but don't buy much?

tim333 10y ago

I'm not sure that the issue is that it's not acceptable to be ambitious in non SV places. It just that people look at the local track record and figure things on that basis. I'm sure in cities with hardly any successful startups there are ambitious people but those chatting to them are likely to think they won't make it because of the lack of others doing so. In the valley however there are a lot who've made it.

norswap 10y ago

Seems to me, most of these entrepreneurs could do with a bit more of yawning in their faces in order to come back down to earth. Don't get me wrong, many good things come out of silicon valley, and it's sometimes hard to judge the worth of an idea. But there's undeniably a lot of half-hearted bullcrap whose sole purpose is to make a quick buck. And on a personal level, the ideas are not the only things that are full of hot air.

cholantesh 10y ago

>As a side note, I still bet most of this forum is against this ambitious personality, affirming at the end of the day that "there is more to life than your projects, go out and live, meet someone, fill out your social schedule, etc." Sounds like you are conflating being ambitious with being entrepreneurial. It's possible to have a meaningful career without starting your own business, not to mention building something of value without it. And all of this is possible outside of the valley. There is a particular trajectory for a business that the valley is amenable to systemically and culturally, but that means very little.