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There's the very real possibility that in 10 years, you'll be broke with a failed startup. Articles like this often act as if risk didn't exist, and then claim

by nikanj 10y ago

There's the very real possibility that in 10 years, you'll be broke with a failed startup. Articles like this often act as if risk didn't exist, and then claim that everyone should quit their steady jobs for a moonshot dream career, be that in arts, acting or startups.

vinceguidry 10y ago
I'm firmly on the side of the corporate career, but this is a BS argument for it. The outcomes aren't binary. Even if you don't "make it" as a writer / actor / cartoonist, it doesn't automatically mean you're broke and waiting tables well into your forties. You can find yourself part of a well-paid production crew or as a grip or something that you're better suited for that the industry actually needs. Similarly, if you're doing startups, failure doesn't go on your permanent record and you can try again. These career fields are about choosing your priorities in life, that's how you choose one path or the other.
ams6110 10y ago
OTOH the time to do a "risky" startup job is when you're young and have no real responsibilities other than yourself. Being broke in your late 20s is recoverable especially if you've gained expertise in current tech; being broke at 40 with a family is a much harder challenge.
kough 10y ago
Huh, I wonder if cdixon has any incentive to interest people in starting their own startups...
- austenallred 10y ago
  Well he got rich starting one, so...
  - PakG1 10y ago
    I think you're missing the point that he's now a full-fledged investor and is now more biased than before. https://a16z.com/author/chris-dixon/ https://a16z.com/author/chris-dixon/
    - austenallred 10y ago
      I'm aware. My point was that I don't consider it deception for someone to try and convince people to get rich the same way he or she got rich. Assuming he only does it because he's an investor is assuming the worst. He can probably only invest in a half dozen companies per year, so encouraging everyone he meets to start companies would be a very indirect Nd unnecessary way of filling the top of that funnel.
vpb 10y ago
Yeah, I'm here. Ten years on the road and a lot of failed dreams. Some days I feel like finding a high beam and buying some rope. Anyway, it's been a fun 10 years - people should be aware of the risks, but it's fun to try.
- pm 10y ago
  I've failed at a lot of things too. I'm not doing exactly what I want to right now in terms of tech, but I'm making up for it in other ways, e.g., playing music. I look back at all the mistakes that have been made though, and I can't really fault anyone else but myself for the trajectory I've taken. It's up to me to learn and find a better way.
wslh 10y ago
Yes, I think it is great and I am proud that YC is having a good reality check that is maturing every year. Just watch the Startup School videos, mainly the Slack founder talk. It is also good to think about alternatives to the typical startup vs corporate dilemma. For example, securing a job and working on side projects until there is a signal they can be something more.
austenallred 10y ago
Honestly I think that risk is overstated. I started a company, failed miserably, but it was easy to get a well-paying job with a salary and a lot of stock when I did. And the company I'm at now I joined long after product-market fit. I was still ahead in my career of people who were in the same place but didn't start a company. And I paid myself slightly less but still well enough to get by, so the only painful part was the transition between jobs. If you're a talented engineer you'll be just fine. I've probably had a job offer per week since then, too. Now I've Saved up enough money, and I'll make another go. If I fail? Back to the same pretty-damn-good default position.
- naasking 10y ago
  > I started a company, failed miserably, but it was easy to get a well-paying job with a salary and a lot of stock when I did. Your anecdotes are not an indication that the risk is overstated. Who knows what factors decreased the risk for you, and while you attribute it to 'engineering talent', it's far more likely to be something like more skill at using the network of connections you've established (most jobs are still filled this way). Whatever that factor is, it isn't necessarily a common skill.
  - austenallred 10y ago
    Find me a talented engineer in the Bay Area who started a company and now can't find a job. We have $5,000 referral bonuses and severe engineering shortages so I'd love to refer him or her.
    - peterwwillis 10y ago
      I have known several, and rent was so high they eventually moved away.
    - alpos 10y ago
      Consider offering remote positions. Even if those positions are only used as a way to open new people to the possibility of moving to SF. If your shortages are severe, why limit your talent pool to the smallest, most competitive market?
dkural 10y ago
You'll then get a job within 2-3 months at a higher salary than what your startup paid you ... plus you'll have a brand new network in your startups industry, with competitors that respect what you've done & gone through.
- davidcbc 10y ago
  > You'll then get a job within 2-3 months at a higher salary than what your startup paid you Assuming you live in SV or NYC

by nikanj 10y ago

vinceguidry 10y ago

I'm firmly on the side of the corporate career, but this is a BS argument for it. The outcomes aren't binary. Even if you don't "make it" as a writer / actor / cartoonist, it doesn't automatically mean you're broke and waiting tables well into your forties. You can find yourself part of a well-paid production crew or as a grip or something that you're better suited for that the industry actually needs. Similarly, if you're doing startups, failure doesn't go on your permanent record and you can try again. These career fields are about choosing your priorities in life, that's how you choose one path or the other.

ams6110 10y ago

OTOH the time to do a "risky" startup job is when you're young and have no real responsibilities other than yourself. Being broke in your late 20s is recoverable especially if you've gained expertise in current tech; being broke at 40 with a family is a much harder challenge.

kough 10y ago

Huh, I wonder if cdixon has any incentive to interest people in starting their own startups...

austenallred 10y ago
Well he got rich starting one, so...
- PakG1 10y ago
  I think you're missing the point that he's now a full-fledged investor and is now more biased than before. https://a16z.com/author/chris-dixon/ https://a16z.com/author/chris-dixon/
  - austenallred 10y ago
    I'm aware. My point was that I don't consider it deception for someone to try and convince people to get rich the same way he or she got rich. Assuming he only does it because he's an investor is assuming the worst. He can probably only invest in a half dozen companies per year, so encouraging everyone he meets to start companies would be a very indirect Nd unnecessary way of filling the top of that funnel.

vpb 10y ago

Yeah, I'm here. Ten years on the road and a lot of failed dreams. Some days I feel like finding a high beam and buying some rope. Anyway, it's been a fun 10 years - people should be aware of the risks, but it's fun to try.

pm 10y ago
I've failed at a lot of things too. I'm not doing exactly what I want to right now in terms of tech, but I'm making up for it in other ways, e.g., playing music. I look back at all the mistakes that have been made though, and I can't really fault anyone else but myself for the trajectory I've taken. It's up to me to learn and find a better way.

wslh 10y ago

Yes, I think it is great and I am proud that YC is having a good reality check that is maturing every year. Just watch the Startup School videos, mainly the Slack founder talk. It is also good to think about alternatives to the typical startup vs corporate dilemma. For example, securing a job and working on side projects until there is a signal they can be something more.

austenallred 10y ago

Honestly I think that risk is overstated. I started a company, failed miserably, but it was easy to get a well-paying job with a salary and a lot of stock when I did. And the company I'm at now I joined long after product-market fit. I was still ahead in my career of people who were in the same place but didn't start a company. And I paid myself slightly less but still well enough to get by, so the only painful part was the transition between jobs. If you're a talented engineer you'll be just fine. I've probably had a job offer per week since then, too. Now I've Saved up enough money, and I'll make another go. If I fail? Back to the same pretty-damn-good default position.

naasking 10y ago
> I started a company, failed miserably, but it was easy to get a well-paying job with a salary and a lot of stock when I did. Your anecdotes are not an indication that the risk is overstated. Who knows what factors decreased the risk for you, and while you attribute it to 'engineering talent', it's far more likely to be something like more skill at using the network of connections you've established (most jobs are still filled this way). Whatever that factor is, it isn't necessarily a common skill.
- austenallred 10y ago
  Find me a talented engineer in the Bay Area who started a company and now can't find a job. We have $5,000 referral bonuses and severe engineering shortages so I'd love to refer him or her.
  - peterwwillis 10y ago
    I have known several, and rent was so high they eventually moved away.
  - alpos 10y ago
    Consider offering remote positions. Even if those positions are only used as a way to open new people to the possibility of moving to SF. If your shortages are severe, why limit your talent pool to the smallest, most competitive market?

dkural 10y ago

You'll then get a job within 2-3 months at a higher salary than what your startup paid you ... plus you'll have a brand new network in your startups industry, with competitors that respect what you've done & gone through.

davidcbc 10y ago
> You'll then get a job within 2-3 months at a higher salary than what your startup paid you Assuming you live in SV or NYC