3 ms·

As an employer I do not care how old you are or if you know your "true" worth or not. All I care about is how you are going to contribute to my bottom line with

As an employer I do not care how old you are or if you know your "true" worth or not. All I care about is how you are going to contribute to my bottom line with the minimum of fuss. If you can do this at 100 I will hire you. My experience is older workers are much better (and more productive) than young workers if you can provide them a stable work environment. If the nature of your business is such that this is impossible, then most older workers will struggle and blame the boss for everything. This does not make for a fun time if you are the manager.

mistermann 10y ago
If only all people with hiring responsibility were devoted to the bottom line of the business, as opposed to the bottom line of their personal careers.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Well I have a massive advantage in being the sole owner as well as boss of my business. This does tend to change your perspective on what is important. You do raise why most manager are not so devoted to the bottom line - it is not their business. Who do you hire - the older employee that will make the business a ton of money, or the young employee who will do as they are told and make the manager's life easy?
  - mistermann 10y ago
    In my experience, not only is it not their business, many middle managers are actively hostile to anyone who is working in the the best interests of the business, as that interferes with their ability to extract value from the business and put it into their own pockets in various different ways.
    - danieltillett 10y ago
      Yes the principle-agent problem has yet to be solved [1]. I wish I had a solution other than keeping the company small and the shareholders involved as managers. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal–agent_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal–agent_problem
      - Arizhel 10y ago
        Wouldn't having regular communications between workers and the manager's boss help here? If the manager's boss is only hearing from the managers directly below him, obviously he's going to get a skewed perspective.
doug1001 10y ago
what do you mean by "stable work environment"? Regardless of how you've defined it, according to your definition, it's something that is (at lest sometimes) beyond the control of management ("If the nature of your business is such that this is impossible...."). are you saying that it's your experience that older workers tend to "blame everything" on the manager--even when particular instability is beyond the manager's control? i should think the more experience one has, the more likely they are to understand the source of a given impact on their work and the more patient they are likely to be--ie, they've seen it before, and don't take it personally. at the same time, if indeed the instability is in fact the manager's fault, then i suspect one with more experience is more likely to identify that fact and bring it to the manager's attention.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  I am saying that people who are struggling in their job blame their boss as the cause. If you put a person into a job that is beyond them they will find an external factor to blame. In my experience this is most commonly management. This is something both young and old do. While I am not claiming to be a perfect boss (far from it), most of the causes of rapid change my employees have faced are external factors totally outside my control. Small companies are by their nature prone to being buffeted by outside forces. It makes things exciting, if not predictable.
  - talmand 10y ago
    Maybe the reason they are struggling in their job is because of the boss? Such as "If you put a person into a job that is beyond them..."? In my experience if there are external forces beyond the manager's control causing problems for the workers, then the cause is likely someone further up the chain than the manager. Eventually you have to reach someone that is responsible for what happens inside the company.
    - danieltillett 10y ago
      Yes the boss has to take responsibility for putting a person into a job they are unsuitable for - I have done this thinking I could put smart and hard working older people into jobs that required a lot of context switching. I take full responsibility for the result. My only defence is I was young and inexperienced. I thought I was being smart by hiring the people other businesses discriminate against. I did at least learn.

mistermann 10y ago

If only all people with hiring responsibility were devoted to the bottom line of the business, as opposed to the bottom line of their personal careers.

danieltillett 10y ago
Well I have a massive advantage in being the sole owner as well as boss of my business. This does tend to change your perspective on what is important. You do raise why most manager are not so devoted to the bottom line - it is not their business. Who do you hire - the older employee that will make the business a ton of money, or the young employee who will do as they are told and make the manager's life easy?
- mistermann 10y ago
  In my experience, not only is it not their business, many middle managers are actively hostile to anyone who is working in the the best interests of the business, as that interferes with their ability to extract value from the business and put it into their own pockets in various different ways.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Yes the principle-agent problem has yet to be solved [1]. I wish I had a solution other than keeping the company small and the shareholders involved as managers. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal–agent_problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal–agent_problem
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      Wouldn't having regular communications between workers and the manager's boss help here? If the manager's boss is only hearing from the managers directly below him, obviously he's going to get a skewed perspective.

doug1001 10y ago

what do you mean by "stable work environment"? Regardless of how you've defined it, according to your definition, it's something that is (at lest sometimes) beyond the control of management ("If the nature of your business is such that this is impossible...."). are you saying that it's your experience that older workers tend to "blame everything" on the manager--even when particular instability is beyond the manager's control? i should think the more experience one has, the more likely they are to understand the source of a given impact on their work and the more patient they are likely to be--ie, they've seen it before, and don't take it personally. at the same time, if indeed the instability is in fact the manager's fault, then i suspect one with more experience is more likely to identify that fact and bring it to the manager's attention.

danieltillett 10y ago
I am saying that people who are struggling in their job blame their boss as the cause. If you put a person into a job that is beyond them they will find an external factor to blame. In my experience this is most commonly management. This is something both young and old do. While I am not claiming to be a perfect boss (far from it), most of the causes of rapid change my employees have faced are external factors totally outside my control. Small companies are by their nature prone to being buffeted by outside forces. It makes things exciting, if not predictable.
- talmand 10y ago
  Maybe the reason they are struggling in their job is because of the boss? Such as "If you put a person into a job that is beyond them..."? In my experience if there are external forces beyond the manager's control causing problems for the workers, then the cause is likely someone further up the chain than the manager. Eventually you have to reach someone that is responsible for what happens inside the company.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Yes the boss has to take responsibility for putting a person into a job they are unsuitable for - I have done this thinking I could put smart and hard working older people into jobs that required a lot of context switching. I take full responsibility for the result. My only defence is I was young and inexperienced. I thought I was being smart by hiring the people other businesses discriminate against. I did at least learn.