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" “Hurt my back at work, lost my job, got evicted, couldn’t get another job.” " This is the key here. We need to create safety nets that allow people to get ba

by muninn_ 10y ago

" “Hurt my back at work, lost my job, got evicted, couldn’t get another job.” " This is the key here. We need to create safety nets that allow people to get back on their feet and become productive members of society. Whether you are rich or poor, this is in your long-term best interest.

vosper 10y ago
Yes, and the culture of deriving (and judging of others) personal value through paid work needs to change. Not having a job shouldn't make you a bad or lesser person.
- peonicles 10y ago
  Its not as simple as that. Humans are social, and want to feel that they are "useful", that their presence / skills are needed. Not having a job takes that away from them, which can snowball into psychological issues, and possibly turn them "bad". When a chunk of society becomes jobless, we've got problems ...
  - vosper 10y ago
    But that's my point. If there were non-job activities that society considered equally useful (e.g. Charity work, spending time with the elderly, community service type stuff) then not having a job wouldn't necessarily take away the feeling of being useful.
    - prostoalex 10y ago
      The Department of Labor takes a very dim view of such non-compensatory activities https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf so corporate bodies (non-profits included) are understandably cautious about recruiting anyone into such positions and then opening themselves up to litigation on unpaid wages.
    - mercer 10y ago
      To confirm your point: I've met many people who were stuck in a cycle of being troubled (often mental health issues, but physical too), and as a result being unemployed or barely-employed, and a result of that ending up even more troubled (again both mentally and physically; inaction is often unhealthy). Then they found the church I was a member of (at times I was the one who brought them). The first thing that often noticeably improved their general well-being was being seen as a person. People would come talk to this newcomer and involve them in some of the weekly activities. Another aspect of church that improved their life was regaining a sense of rhythm that they had lost: a weekly Sunday service + activities after, a weekly 'small-group' meeting at someone's house (and a big source of new friendships), the usual religious holidays, etc. But the thing that seemed to most improve their situation was becoming active as volunteers. This would speed up the making-friends process, give them a sense of purpose, take them 'out of themselves' (and their troubles) by focusing on others, and their new responsibilities provided an increase in self-worth (and sometimes even an income, if they were among the 'paid volunteers'). I've seen people that I couldn't imagine 'getting better' regain a sense of normalcy, confidence and even happiness in astonishingly short periods of time. Now obviously there's also a lot I saw in churches that I didn't like. But I've not found an alternative, at least not as visible as churches, that seems as effective, to the point where I'm almost inclined to encourage 'troubled people' to maybe give church a shot.

by muninn_ 10y ago

vosper 10y ago

Yes, and the culture of deriving (and judging of others) personal value through paid work needs to change. Not having a job shouldn't make you a bad or lesser person.

peonicles 10y ago
Its not as simple as that. Humans are social, and want to feel that they are "useful", that their presence / skills are needed. Not having a job takes that away from them, which can snowball into psychological issues, and possibly turn them "bad". When a chunk of society becomes jobless, we've got problems ...
- vosper 10y ago
  But that's my point. If there were non-job activities that society considered equally useful (e.g. Charity work, spending time with the elderly, community service type stuff) then not having a job wouldn't necessarily take away the feeling of being useful.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    The Department of Labor takes a very dim view of such non-compensatory activities https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf so corporate bodies (non-profits included) are understandably cautious about recruiting anyone into such positions and then opening themselves up to litigation on unpaid wages.
  - mercer 10y ago
    To confirm your point: I've met many people who were stuck in a cycle of being troubled (often mental health issues, but physical too), and as a result being unemployed or barely-employed, and a result of that ending up even more troubled (again both mentally and physically; inaction is often unhealthy). Then they found the church I was a member of (at times I was the one who brought them). The first thing that often noticeably improved their general well-being was being seen as a person. People would come talk to this newcomer and involve them in some of the weekly activities. Another aspect of church that improved their life was regaining a sense of rhythm that they had lost: a weekly Sunday service + activities after, a weekly 'small-group' meeting at someone's house (and a big source of new friendships), the usual religious holidays, etc. But the thing that seemed to most improve their situation was becoming active as volunteers. This would speed up the making-friends process, give them a sense of purpose, take them 'out of themselves' (and their troubles) by focusing on others, and their new responsibilities provided an increase in self-worth (and sometimes even an income, if they were among the 'paid volunteers'). I've seen people that I couldn't imagine 'getting better' regain a sense of normalcy, confidence and even happiness in astonishingly short periods of time. Now obviously there's also a lot I saw in churches that I didn't like. But I've not found an alternative, at least not as visible as churches, that seems as effective, to the point where I'm almost inclined to encourage 'troubled people' to maybe give church a shot.