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There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still using 4×5" and 8×10" film cameras, but I bet t

There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still using 4×5" and 8×10" film cameras, but I bet those medium-format puppies at #1 above could do the trick. Perhaps that comment comes from not working with a large format camera, so there's plenty to forgive the author. A 55mm sensor, no matter how subtly it captures the light, can never produce a comparable picture. There's a particular quality that enthusiastic photographers may have noticed when moving up sensor sizes. Despite the very similar field of view, there's a different look to a 35mm lens on an APS-C camera vs a 50mm lens on a full-frame camera. It's a factor of the character of the lens design in combination with the resulting field of view. The images produced from a well-handled large format camera can be truly spectacular. Looking at a good, large print from an 8x10, you'll notice a much greater dimensionality in the image. The shadows may have subtleties and a level of smoothness that are unrecognised. This isn't a digital/analogue snobbery thing - I love digital photography, and haven't shot film in quite some time. It's purely a physical size thing. I just doubt we're going to get an 8x10 sensor in a camera any time soon, so for now film still has a unique advantage, at least for those people willing to go through the hassle.

david-gpu 9y ago
Can you back any of that with objective metrics? Right now it sounds a lot like what I hear from amateur audiophiles.
- whyenot 9y ago
  Lets just take resolution. IF you assume 4000 pixels per inch (which as far as I can tell is a reasonable estimate), then it is about (4000 * 4) * (4000 * 5) = 320MP for 4x5 film and (4000 * 8) * (4000 * 10) = 1280MP for 8x10. It's a very big difference.
- Finnucane 9y ago
  What he's talking about is partly an optical effect caused by the enlargement of the image in different formats. Consider three film cameras--a 35mm, a MF, and a 4x5 LF camera, each with a lens that covers the same angle of view. That means that for a given film, the small format is compressed relative to the larger format--less film is used to capture detail and tonal variation. An object covering 2mm of film in one format may be covering 10mm of film in the larger format, but the film itself has the same amount of grain per mm in either case. It may be difficult to make a direct comparison to digital, since pixel size and density vary so much across cameras, and those variable have a somewhat different affect on picture quality.
- chongli 9y ago
  It's all about depth of field. With a given focal length, a smaller sensor/film camera forces you to stand further away from your subject than a larger one. The further you stand from your subject, the closer you get to focusing at infinity. When you focus at infinity, your depth of field comprises a huge range! Large format cameras allow you to get closer to your subject (while achieving the same framing) and obtain an extremely shallow depth of field. Here's an example taken with a 4x5 camera [0]. Notice how her eyes are in perfect focus but the rest of the scene melts away into softness. A phone camera would put almost everything in this scene into sharp focus, making the foreground and background elements a lot more distracting. Combine that with camera movements [1] and you can achieve many effects that are simply impossible with an SLR, let alone a P&S or phone camera. [0] http://www.kendallpavanphotography.com/archives/6890 http://www.kendallpavanphotography.com/archives/6890 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y
timbray 9y ago
“dimensionality”?
patrickg_zill 9y ago
The reason to use 4x5 or larger is usually because you can tilt/swing the lens in various ways, thus adjusting in-camera for perspective problems. As well, doing this, you can modify the plane of what is in-focus, which cannot be corrected for in current cameras. A typical example would be tilting the front of the camera (with the lens mounted on it) so that both near and far flowers would be perfectly in focus. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle Also, see http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html for an idea of file sizes and current # of pixels available: a 4x5 scanning back that does both 24bit and 48 bit color at 8000x10600 pixels is available for less than many medium format setups.
- rplst8 9y ago
  There are some tilt-shift lenses out there for APS and FF SLRs. I think Lensbaby makes A few.
  - wl 9y ago
    Tilt-shift lenses are nowhere near as flexible in terms of movements as a proper monorail view camera. Still, few people routinely need that extra flexibility.
  - brudgers 9y ago
    LensBaby makes some lenses that tilt and some that have selective focus. Canon and Nikon and third party manufacturers make DSLR tilt-shift lenses that provide some of the movements possible with a technical camera. Typically, all the DSLR tilt-shift lenses are compatible with full frame sensors.
  - patrickg_zill 9y ago
    True, but ALL lenses on a 4x5 camera have this ability if the camera body does it.

david-gpu 9y ago

Can you back any of that with objective metrics? Right now it sounds a lot like what I hear from amateur audiophiles.

whyenot 9y ago
Lets just take resolution. IF you assume 4000 pixels per inch (which as far as I can tell is a reasonable estimate), then it is about (4000 * 4) * (4000 * 5) = 320MP for 4x5 film and (4000 * 8) * (4000 * 10) = 1280MP for 8x10. It's a very big difference.
Finnucane 9y ago
What he's talking about is partly an optical effect caused by the enlargement of the image in different formats. Consider three film cameras--a 35mm, a MF, and a 4x5 LF camera, each with a lens that covers the same angle of view. That means that for a given film, the small format is compressed relative to the larger format--less film is used to capture detail and tonal variation. An object covering 2mm of film in one format may be covering 10mm of film in the larger format, but the film itself has the same amount of grain per mm in either case. It may be difficult to make a direct comparison to digital, since pixel size and density vary so much across cameras, and those variable have a somewhat different affect on picture quality.
chongli 9y ago
It's all about depth of field. With a given focal length, a smaller sensor/film camera forces you to stand further away from your subject than a larger one. The further you stand from your subject, the closer you get to focusing at infinity. When you focus at infinity, your depth of field comprises a huge range! Large format cameras allow you to get closer to your subject (while achieving the same framing) and obtain an extremely shallow depth of field. Here's an example taken with a 4x5 camera [0]. Notice how her eyes are in perfect focus but the rest of the scene melts away into softness. A phone camera would put almost everything in this scene into sharp focus, making the foreground and background elements a lot more distracting. Combine that with camera movements [1] and you can achieve many effects that are simply impossible with an SLR, let alone a P&S or phone camera. [0] http://www.kendallpavanphotography.com/archives/6890 http://www.kendallpavanphotography.com/archives/6890 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JU-eHpk97Y

timbray 9y ago

“dimensionality”?

patrickg_zill 9y ago

The reason to use 4x5 or larger is usually because you can tilt/swing the lens in various ways, thus adjusting in-camera for perspective problems. As well, doing this, you can modify the plane of what is in-focus, which cannot be corrected for in current cameras. A typical example would be tilting the front of the camera (with the lens mounted on it) so that both near and far flowers would be perfectly in focus. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle Also, see http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html http://www.betterlight.com/products4X5.html for an idea of file sizes and current # of pixels available: a 4x5 scanning back that does both 24bit and 48 bit color at 8000x10600 pixels is available for less than many medium format setups.

rplst8 9y ago
There are some tilt-shift lenses out there for APS and FF SLRs. I think Lensbaby makes A few.
- wl 9y ago
  Tilt-shift lenses are nowhere near as flexible in terms of movements as a proper monorail view camera. Still, few people routinely need that extra flexibility.
- brudgers 9y ago
  LensBaby makes some lenses that tilt and some that have selective focus. Canon and Nikon and third party manufacturers make DSLR tilt-shift lenses that provide some of the movements possible with a technical camera. Typically, all the DSLR tilt-shift lenses are compatible with full frame sensors.
- patrickg_zill 9y ago
  True, but ALL lenses on a 4x5 camera have this ability if the camera body does it.

There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still us­ing 4×5" and 8×10" film cam­eras, but I bet t

There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still us­ing 4×5" and 8×10" film cam­eras, but I bet t

There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still using 4×5" and 8×10" film cameras, but I bet t

There's some truth in here, but I wanted to highlight this section as one which needs correction: > He’s still using 4×5" and 8×10" film cameras, but I bet t