6 ms·

Daring Fireball: iPhone 4 Impressions and Observations

113 points by dave1619 16y ago

Perceval 16y ago
>After using so much aluminum in recent hardware designs, it’s interesting that they’re using stainless steel for the iPhone 4. I wonder if this is related to the steel frame serving as the iPhone's antenna. Would steel be a better material than aluminum for this purpose?
- dave1619 16y ago
  It's likely that steel is a better antenna but also it's probably stronger than aluminum. Their videos says they've made a special stainless steel that's even stronger than regular stainless steel. It'll also help for the stronger part of the phone to be the edges in case people drop their phone.
  - pyre 16y ago
    I wonder what the specs on the strength of this 'new stainless steel' are. I highly doubt that Apple is now pioneering new innovations in the realm of metallurgy "just to bring you a better iPhone," though their marketing would probably have you believe otherwise.
    - stcredzero 16y ago
      "Strength" of a metal is always a tweaked compromise of hardness and toughness. It could be that their steel is formulated specially for the particular structure of the iPhone 4. This wouldn't be a new pioneering branch of metallurgy, though it could be spun like that by marketdroids.
      - electromagnetic 16y ago
        Agreed, drop a little more carbon into the steel and you've got your own new stainless steel that for all intensive purposes is probably identical to 3,000 types of steel already on the market by different producers globally. Steel is steel, they probably researched the steel that works best as an antenna whilst not compromising the physical strength of the unit (for instance, you don't want the metal case to be the thing most likely to shatter on the device).
        mikeklaas 16y ago
        > intensive purposes I love that eggcorn. It's "intents and purposes", btw.
  - werrett 16y ago
    they've made a special stainless steel that's even stronger... They've discovered Rearden Metal[1]! The only question now is who will be Dagny Taggart to Job's Hank Rearden. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#Plot_summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#Plot_summary
    - fleitz 16y ago
      Does that mean that "Jony" Ive is Galt?
- bavcyc 16y ago
  Al has higher conductivity than SS. I'd have to crunch numbers to see if it would make that much difference at cell phone frequencies (power budget). At 60 Hz, ACSR has most of the current in the Al not the steel from the skin effect. SS has the advantage of strength over Al. Possibly a SS exterior with Al inside. edit: I cheated and glanced at the ARRL Handbook (2005) page 20.7 "The strongest wire suitable for antenna service is copperclad steel, also known as copperweld. The copper coating is necessary for RF service because steel is a relatively poor conductor." Based on that I suspect a better conductor inside the SS or as part of the SS. Further edit: using google, there are SS Yagi antennas so that is nothing new, not sure about other antenna types at this time. If Apple used SS and made a better antenna (larger?) then it might use less power than a smaller antenna using a better conductor. last edit: SS whip antennas are also available, such that the material choice probably is not that big of deal as much as the design of the antenna itself.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- hop 16y ago
  Forged steel is much harder than anodized aluminum. My 1st gen aluminum phone got beat up and deformed, this should be much better. Also interesting is the incredible strength and toughness of the glass they showed getting deformed in the bend tester. Apple has replaced many of my iPhones, but I bet this one will be hard to break and they will lose a lot less money.
bavcyc 16y ago
From what I've been reading, the hardware seems rather nice. Not sure I like the iAds (concept) though especially if the ad data downloaded is counted against the data limit before extra charges occur. Has anyone seen anything on the details for this? Still thinking Android since I have a choice of vendors.
- dave1619 16y ago
  Most likely all data is counted for with AT&T. But ad data probably is negligible because the whole ad is not downloaded, just the banner. It's only when you click on the ad that the rest of the ad is visible as html 5.
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    Is this confirmed? I understood (from the OS 4 intro a couple of months ago) that the whole ad was cached on the device, which obviously makes opening it faster.
- bradgessler 16y ago
  This is where AT&T jumps into this iAd stuff with some kind of revenue share program where they provide end-users the bandwidth for "free" and they get a cut of the ad revenue. Say goodbye to net neutrality on mobile phone networks, as if it ever existed.
dave1619 16y ago
Apple appears to have really focused on hardware innovation for iPhone 4: steel alloy antenna acting as frame custom A4 chip gyroscope camera backslide illumination sensor engineered glass and retina display This seems like the biggest hardware upgrade to the iPhone to date. I think people will respond by making it a record-selling iPhone.
- andreyf 16y ago
  I highly doubt that Apple is now pioneering new innovations in the realm of metallurgy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_science Do you really think a company like Apple doesn't have any materials engineers? I don't know what the ratio is of the materials they develop in-house compared to the rights they buy from smaller research companies or institutions, but materials science is definitely a field Apple knows a lot about.
  - khafra 16y ago
    For the confused, the above comment appears to be a reply to this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1412551 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1412551
- hammerdr 16y ago
  I think you're forgetting that iOS 4 has a metric ton of additions that were announced at another keynote. Edit: not that I disagree with you, but it should be noted that the focus of this keynote was hardware in part because the software had already been announced
  - dave1619 16y ago
    I totally agree. Lots of software additions in iOS 4. I just noticed how many hardware innovations were announced in the keynote today.
- sbaqai 16y ago
  I mentioned this in the other thread, but hardware (and industrial design) is where Apple has greater expertise (and competitive advantage) over the competition. They are widening their moat. Most of these hardware innovations translate directly to new/enhanced user experiences. And competitors like Google don't build phones - they build software. They are limited to what phone manufacturers (experts in phones - not software) can develop technologically. This is not to say Android won't have greater market share - I just believe Apple realizes Google as a threat, and now heading in a direction that will be tricky for them to follow.
johnrob 16y ago
It also improved the field of view for the display — you can view the display from an oblique angle and it looks great. This could get annoying in public places, where you don't want people looking at your phone.
- ronnier 16y ago
  I noticed that it was real common in Japan for people to place a protective cover over their mobile's screen that prevents viewing from an angle. With so many people so closely grouped together on trains, it's a necessity.
  - kmfrk 16y ago
    In case anyone is interested, the method used is polarization, and the film is either called a polarisation filter or a polarising filter depending on how it translates in Amurica. I don't know any decent-looking vendours who sell them, be it for iPhones and other devices, so it might be your chance to get entrepreneurial
  - cawhitworth 16y ago
    > With so many people so closely grouped together trying to read porn on trains, it's a necessity. At least, that was my experience of trains in Tokyo, anyway.
samlittlewood 16y ago
Google remains the default search engine in iOS 4, but on all the demo phones in the hands-on area for the media, the search engine was set to Bing. An interesting message! I'm guessing the map app is still using Google?
- bobbyi 16y ago
  They may have just been showing off the new features since Bing was added in this version.
jsz0 16y ago
They did a great job hitting the big outstanding issues with the iPhone and pulling ahead in some key areas. When you combine the hardware refresh with all the new iOS4 features it really is a gigantic upgrade. It puts the last 12 months of Android/iPhone competition into better perspective. 3 months ago I would have said Google was outpacing Apple on hardware & software but I'm not sure now. What do you guys think?
- mattmaroon 16y ago
  It's irrelevant. Saying the iPhone has been losing marketshare to Android due to any hardware specs is like saying Coca Cola was losing marketshare to Pepsi in the 80's due to Pepsi tasting better. It seems logical, but it's just not the problem. That's why New Coke was a disaster, and it's why Android will outsell iOS soon (if it's not already). Android is gaining because of carriers. What Apple really needed to announce (and why their share price dropped when they did not) was launching on Verizon.
  - terpua 16y ago
    I'm not sure why you are getting down voted. Your explanation is logical and the lack of iPhone carriers is a big issue for marketshare. Up voted.
  - pkaler 16y ago
    You're stealing my analogy. But I believe Bing is Pepsi and Google is New Coke. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1400311 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1400311 It looks like Apple takes 20% market share by size and 80% by revenue. Android takes 80% market share by size and 20% by revenue. The carriers are giving away Android phones to price sensitive customers. That looks like Apple's strategy with respect to iAds, too. It looks like iAds will be focused on large, mainstream consumer brands and AdMob will be focused on affiliate links for boner pills. Big advertisers don't want to advertise to price sensitive customers and App developers can't sell to them.
    - tyler_ball 16y ago
GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
I wonder, does the HTC Evo have the same fusion of touchscreen and glass? So no more dust-under-the-glass issue as well or is Apple the poinere here?

113 points by dave1619 16y ago

>After using so much aluminum in recent hardware designs, it’s interesting that they’re using stainless steel for the iPhone 4. I wonder if this is related to the steel frame serving as the iPhone's antenna. Would steel be a better material than aluminum for this purpose?

dave1619 16y ago
It's likely that steel is a better antenna but also it's probably stronger than aluminum. Their videos says they've made a special stainless steel that's even stronger than regular stainless steel. It'll also help for the stronger part of the phone to be the edges in case people drop their phone.
- pyre 16y ago
  I wonder what the specs on the strength of this 'new stainless steel' are. I highly doubt that Apple is now pioneering new innovations in the realm of metallurgy "just to bring you a better iPhone," though their marketing would probably have you believe otherwise.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    "Strength" of a metal is always a tweaked compromise of hardness and toughness. It could be that their steel is formulated specially for the particular structure of the iPhone 4. This wouldn't be a new pioneering branch of metallurgy, though it could be spun like that by marketdroids.
    - electromagnetic 16y ago
      Agreed, drop a little more carbon into the steel and you've got your own new stainless steel that for all intensive purposes is probably identical to 3,000 types of steel already on the market by different producers globally. Steel is steel, they probably researched the steel that works best as an antenna whilst not compromising the physical strength of the unit (for instance, you don't want the metal case to be the thing most likely to shatter on the device).
      - mikeklaas 16y ago
        > intensive purposes I love that eggcorn. It's "intents and purposes", btw.
- werrett 16y ago
  they've made a special stainless steel that's even stronger... They've discovered Rearden Metal[1]! The only question now is who will be Dagny Taggart to Job's Hank Rearden. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#Plot_summary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged#Plot_summary
  - fleitz 16y ago
    Does that mean that "Jony" Ive is Galt?
bavcyc 16y ago
Al has higher conductivity than SS. I'd have to crunch numbers to see if it would make that much difference at cell phone frequencies (power budget). At 60 Hz, ACSR has most of the current in the Al not the steel from the skin effect. SS has the advantage of strength over Al. Possibly a SS exterior with Al inside. edit: I cheated and glanced at the ARRL Handbook (2005) page 20.7 "The strongest wire suitable for antenna service is copperclad steel, also known as copperweld. The copper coating is necessary for RF service because steel is a relatively poor conductor." Based on that I suspect a better conductor inside the SS or as part of the SS. Further edit: using google, there are SS Yagi antennas so that is nothing new, not sure about other antenna types at this time. If Apple used SS and made a better antenna (larger?) then it might use less power than a smaller antenna using a better conductor. last edit: SS whip antennas are also available, such that the material choice probably is not that big of deal as much as the design of the antenna itself.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
hop 16y ago
Forged steel is much harder than anodized aluminum. My 1st gen aluminum phone got beat up and deformed, this should be much better. Also interesting is the incredible strength and toughness of the glass they showed getting deformed in the bend tester. Apple has replaced many of my iPhones, but I bet this one will be hard to break and they will lose a lot less money.

bavcyc 16y ago

From what I've been reading, the hardware seems rather nice. Not sure I like the iAds (concept) though especially if the ad data downloaded is counted against the data limit before extra charges occur. Has anyone seen anything on the details for this? Still thinking Android since I have a choice of vendors.

dave1619 16y ago
Most likely all data is counted for with AT&T. But ad data probably is negligible because the whole ad is not downloaded, just the banner. It's only when you click on the ad that the rest of the ad is visible as html 5.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  Is this confirmed? I understood (from the OS 4 intro a couple of months ago) that the whole ad was cached on the device, which obviously makes opening it faster.
bradgessler 16y ago
This is where AT&T jumps into this iAd stuff with some kind of revenue share program where they provide end-users the bandwidth for "free" and they get a cut of the ad revenue. Say goodbye to net neutrality on mobile phone networks, as if it ever existed.

dave1619 16y ago

Apple appears to have really focused on hardware innovation for iPhone 4: steel alloy antenna acting as frame custom A4 chip gyroscope camera backslide illumination sensor engineered glass and retina display This seems like the biggest hardware upgrade to the iPhone to date. I think people will respond by making it a record-selling iPhone.

andreyf 16y ago
I highly doubt that Apple is now pioneering new innovations in the realm of metallurgy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_science Do you really think a company like Apple doesn't have any materials engineers? I don't know what the ratio is of the materials they develop in-house compared to the rights they buy from smaller research companies or institutions, but materials science is definitely a field Apple knows a lot about.
- khafra 16y ago
  For the confused, the above comment appears to be a reply to this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1412551 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1412551
hammerdr 16y ago
I think you're forgetting that iOS 4 has a metric ton of additions that were announced at another keynote. Edit: not that I disagree with you, but it should be noted that the focus of this keynote was hardware in part because the software had already been announced
- dave1619 16y ago
  I totally agree. Lots of software additions in iOS 4. I just noticed how many hardware innovations were announced in the keynote today.
sbaqai 16y ago
I mentioned this in the other thread, but hardware (and industrial design) is where Apple has greater expertise (and competitive advantage) over the competition. They are widening their moat. Most of these hardware innovations translate directly to new/enhanced user experiences. And competitors like Google don't build phones - they build software. They are limited to what phone manufacturers (experts in phones - not software) can develop technologically. This is not to say Android won't have greater market share - I just believe Apple realizes Google as a threat, and now heading in a direction that will be tricky for them to follow.

johnrob 16y ago

It also improved the field of view for the display — you can view the display from an oblique angle and it looks great. This could get annoying in public places, where you don't want people looking at your phone.

ronnier 16y ago
I noticed that it was real common in Japan for people to place a protective cover over their mobile's screen that prevents viewing from an angle. With so many people so closely grouped together on trains, it's a necessity.
- kmfrk 16y ago
  In case anyone is interested, the method used is polarization, and the film is either called a polarisation filter or a polarising filter depending on how it translates in Amurica. I don't know any decent-looking vendours who sell them, be it for iPhones and other devices, so it might be your chance to get entrepreneurial
- cawhitworth 16y ago
  > With so many people so closely grouped together trying to read porn on trains, it's a necessity. At least, that was my experience of trains in Tokyo, anyway.

samlittlewood 16y ago

Google remains the default search engine in iOS 4, but on all the demo phones in the hands-on area for the media, the search engine was set to Bing. An interesting message! I'm guessing the map app is still using Google?

bobbyi 16y ago
They may have just been showing off the new features since Bing was added in this version.

jsz0 16y ago

They did a great job hitting the big outstanding issues with the iPhone and pulling ahead in some key areas. When you combine the hardware refresh with all the new iOS4 features it really is a gigantic upgrade. It puts the last 12 months of Android/iPhone competition into better perspective. 3 months ago I would have said Google was outpacing Apple on hardware & software but I'm not sure now. What do you guys think?

mattmaroon 16y ago
It's irrelevant. Saying the iPhone has been losing marketshare to Android due to any hardware specs is like saying Coca Cola was losing marketshare to Pepsi in the 80's due to Pepsi tasting better. It seems logical, but it's just not the problem. That's why New Coke was a disaster, and it's why Android will outsell iOS soon (if it's not already). Android is gaining because of carriers. What Apple really needed to announce (and why their share price dropped when they did not) was launching on Verizon.
- terpua 16y ago
  I'm not sure why you are getting down voted. Your explanation is logical and the lack of iPhone carriers is a big issue for marketshare. Up voted.
- pkaler 16y ago
  You're stealing my analogy. But I believe Bing is Pepsi and Google is New Coke. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1400311 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1400311 It looks like Apple takes 20% market share by size and 80% by revenue. Android takes 80% market share by size and 20% by revenue. The carriers are giving away Android phones to price sensitive customers. That looks like Apple's strategy with respect to iAds, too. It looks like iAds will be focused on large, mainstream consumer brands and AdMob will be focused on affiliate links for boner pills. Big advertisers don't want to advertise to price sensitive customers and App developers can't sell to them.
  - tyler_ball 16y ago

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago

I wonder, does the HTC Evo have the same fusion of touchscreen and glass? So no more dust-under-the-glass issue as well or is Apple the poinere here?