7 ms·

Actually, most countries do this. Don't confuse the taxes levied on a US citizen's income when living abroad with Apple's situation. Apple is a US corporation

Actually, most countries do this. Don't confuse the taxes levied on a US citizen's income when living abroad with Apple's situation. Apple is a US corporation.

toth 9y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted to gray, it is correct. In most countries, if you are a tax resident, your foreign income is taxed. What is unusual about US is that it also taxes foreign income for US citizens that are living abroad, almost no countries do this.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Well, we are in good company with Eritrea I guess... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizen...
- Veratyr 9y ago
  I think because the original comment is ambiguous. It isn't clear whether by "income I earn overseas", he's referring to income earned while a tax resident of another country (for example living and working there) or income earned while a tax resident of the US (for example through overseas investment or < 1yr work). One commenter appears to have assumed the former, the person replying assumes the latter.
- homakov 9y ago
  It is not correct until that "As an individual I am taxed on income I earn overseas. Why shouldn't a corporation?" implied living overseas as well.
- bbcbasic 9y ago
  Even foreign income that the host country considers to be a pension with special tax treatment (like 401k) http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/irs-chases-us-citizens-in-australia-20150406-1mf5ei http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/irs-chases-us-citizen... I know someone who is giving up US citizenship on return to Australia for this reason.
- EduardoBautista 9y ago
  I always thought this kind of made sense. I mean, you still enjoy the benefits of being a US citizen. You are also more likely to use the embassies and consulates.
- sumedh 9y ago
  Well if you look at it from a Govt's perspective it makes sense. Even though you are US citizen living outside US you still part of the club for which you have to pay membership fees. If you dont like that you are free to leave the club and take some other citizenship.
  - aoeuasdf1 9y ago
    No, because you don't cost the govt anything. You don't use any public services in the USA, you use the public services where you live. You're paying for literally nothing but a passport.
    - sumedh 9y ago
      > You're paying for literally nothing but a passport. Which is exactly what I meant, you are paying the membership fees whether you use the services or not. The US govt knows that, if you dont like you are free to give up that passport which I am sure you wont.
      - X-Istence 9y ago
        Renouncing US citizenship is not something you do by filing in a form and sending it along with your passport to the US embassy. It can take years, plus many lawyers, and in the mean time you have to continue paying taxes, and pay for the process thereof. It's not that simple.
    - C4K3 9y ago
      and it even costs a fixed fee to get a passport.
  - yehi 9y ago
    I am a citizen of a foreign country, I have a job in that country, I store my money in that country, I buy practically all of my products in that country. Why should the fact that when I was a baby, the US government decided to give me citizenship cause me to pay more taxes (or at least pay more to file) than my neighbor who is not a US citizen?
drdeadringer 9y ago
> Apple is a US corporation. IIRC, the US considers corporations as people. Am I wrong?
- valuearb 9y ago
  You don't lose your constitutional rights just because you form a corporation, a nonprofit, a group, or a party. That's the meaning of corporations are treated like people, laws restricting the ability of corporations to express themselves have to be weighed against the owners rights to express themselves.
  - drdeadringer 9y ago
    I wasn't saying that I would loose my rights once I form a corporation. I was trying to say that corporations, as considered people, can [should?] be treated as such regarding taxes or expression or fill-the-blank just as you or I am. If I am taxed by the US for every single penny I earn regardless of source, why should not US Corporation LLC Inc? We are both people. We both have income. Perhaps we both have foreign bank accounts. Every inch of my income gets taxed but US Corporation LLC Inc gets to stash big monies with no regard? I am confused.
    - toast0 9y ago
      When you invest in any corporation as a US person, you are only taxed on income you receive as dividends, or capital on your gains if you sell the investment (and any imputed income); not on your share of the undistributed income of the corporation. It's the same for a US corporation, they generally conduct business overseas through a wholly owned subsidiary corporation, organized within the overseas jurisdiction. If the subsidiary passes income back to the parent (a dividend), the parent will have to pay income tax on that; if the income remains within the subsidiary, so does the tax burden. If the US corporation directly accumulates income overseas, then it would be liable for US income tax as well. It's a lot easier for a large corporation to arrange its affairs in this manner than a natural person, though.
    - valuearb 9y ago
valuearb 9y ago
"Apple is a US corporation" But the overseas profits were earned outside of the US by non-US corporations, so why should they be taxed in the US? If I buy shares in Samsung, it doesn't suddenly have to pay 35% of its Korean income as taxes to the US.

Actually, most countries do this. Don't confuse the taxes levied on a US citizen's income when living abroad with Apple's situation. Apple is a US corporation.

toth 9y ago

Not sure why this is downvoted to gray, it is correct. In most countries, if you are a tax resident, your foreign income is taxed. What is unusual about US is that it also taxes foreign income for US citizens that are living abroad, almost no countries do this.

ajmurmann 9y ago
Well, we are in good company with Eritrea I guess... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation#Citizen...
Veratyr 9y ago
I think because the original comment is ambiguous. It isn't clear whether by "income I earn overseas", he's referring to income earned while a tax resident of another country (for example living and working there) or income earned while a tax resident of the US (for example through overseas investment or < 1yr work). One commenter appears to have assumed the former, the person replying assumes the latter.
homakov 9y ago
It is not correct until that "As an individual I am taxed on income I earn overseas. Why shouldn't a corporation?" implied living overseas as well.
bbcbasic 9y ago
Even foreign income that the host country considers to be a pension with special tax treatment (like 401k) http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/irs-chases-us-citizens-in-australia-20150406-1mf5ei http://www.afr.com/business/accounting/irs-chases-us-citizen... I know someone who is giving up US citizenship on return to Australia for this reason.
EduardoBautista 9y ago
I always thought this kind of made sense. I mean, you still enjoy the benefits of being a US citizen. You are also more likely to use the embassies and consulates.
sumedh 9y ago
Well if you look at it from a Govt's perspective it makes sense. Even though you are US citizen living outside US you still part of the club for which you have to pay membership fees. If you dont like that you are free to leave the club and take some other citizenship.
- aoeuasdf1 9y ago
  No, because you don't cost the govt anything. You don't use any public services in the USA, you use the public services where you live. You're paying for literally nothing but a passport.
  - sumedh 9y ago
    > You're paying for literally nothing but a passport. Which is exactly what I meant, you are paying the membership fees whether you use the services or not. The US govt knows that, if you dont like you are free to give up that passport which I am sure you wont.
    - X-Istence 9y ago
      Renouncing US citizenship is not something you do by filing in a form and sending it along with your passport to the US embassy. It can take years, plus many lawyers, and in the mean time you have to continue paying taxes, and pay for the process thereof. It's not that simple.
  - C4K3 9y ago
    and it even costs a fixed fee to get a passport.
- yehi 9y ago
  I am a citizen of a foreign country, I have a job in that country, I store my money in that country, I buy practically all of my products in that country. Why should the fact that when I was a baby, the US government decided to give me citizenship cause me to pay more taxes (or at least pay more to file) than my neighbor who is not a US citizen?

drdeadringer 9y ago

> Apple is a US corporation. IIRC, the US considers corporations as people. Am I wrong?

valuearb 9y ago
You don't lose your constitutional rights just because you form a corporation, a nonprofit, a group, or a party. That's the meaning of corporations are treated like people, laws restricting the ability of corporations to express themselves have to be weighed against the owners rights to express themselves.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  I wasn't saying that I would loose my rights once I form a corporation. I was trying to say that corporations, as considered people, can [should?] be treated as such regarding taxes or expression or fill-the-blank just as you or I am. If I am taxed by the US for every single penny I earn regardless of source, why should not US Corporation LLC Inc? We are both people. We both have income. Perhaps we both have foreign bank accounts. Every inch of my income gets taxed but US Corporation LLC Inc gets to stash big monies with no regard? I am confused.
  - toast0 9y ago
    When you invest in any corporation as a US person, you are only taxed on income you receive as dividends, or capital on your gains if you sell the investment (and any imputed income); not on your share of the undistributed income of the corporation. It's the same for a US corporation, they generally conduct business overseas through a wholly owned subsidiary corporation, organized within the overseas jurisdiction. If the subsidiary passes income back to the parent (a dividend), the parent will have to pay income tax on that; if the income remains within the subsidiary, so does the tax burden. If the US corporation directly accumulates income overseas, then it would be liable for US income tax as well. It's a lot easier for a large corporation to arrange its affairs in this manner than a natural person, though.
  - valuearb 9y ago

valuearb 9y ago

"Apple is a US corporation" But the overseas profits were earned outside of the US by non-US corporations, so why should they be taxed in the US? If I buy shares in Samsung, it doesn't suddenly have to pay 35% of its Korean income as taxes to the US.