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Yeah, they sure look like they can't decide what to do with their riches. It's sad. Put money toward self driving car tech if you wish, you have so much to wast

Yeah, they sure look like they can't decide what to do with their riches. It's sad. Put money toward self driving car tech if you wish, you have so much to waste. But where are your awesome next gen laptops, why nothing like a chromebook, why their disasterous desktop machines (the coffee warmer form factor, what where they thinking). The apple watch. The majority of professional devs use apple laptops because they are a great selection of tools and nice ui with unix tools. They can't build off that?

valuearb 10y ago
Somehow despite their "disastrous desktop machines" and disappointing laptops, they are the highest revenue PC manufacturer in the world and make more profits making PCs than the rest of the market combined. And somehow they only sold $6B in Apple Watches it's first year, not only making it the most successful watch launch in history but the best selling watch in the world by revenues. Imagine if they'd only invest more!
- jacquesm 10y ago
  But that money is not made on PCs, it is mostly made on phones and tablets. Q1/17: 80M iphones, 10M+ ipads, 5M Macs. And margins on phones and pads are higher than on PCs too.
  - valuearb 10y ago
    Which is one excuse given for the slow updates on the Mac side (one I don't buy). But again, Apple's Mac sales are over $25B a year,and it's profit margins on those sales are far higher (15% vs. 2-3%) than the other PC makers. It will never be as big as iPhone or iPad, but it's still one of the largest businesses in the entire world (it would just miss the Fortune 100 list on its own). It's sad they aren't doing a better job of updating the hardware, but so far it hasn't shown up in their sales.
    - pokemongoaway 10y ago
      Is this an argument for the status quo? That is, if "it doesn't show up in sales," then a tech company should feel comfortable doing which of the following? 1) Allowing software update issues 2) Alienating userbase who develops their software 3) Alienating pro audio users who want flexibility 4) ... Overlook any issue some user group has if they are winning in the market
- EpicEng 10y ago
  >Somehow despite their "disastrous desktop machines" and disappointing laptops, they are the highest revenue PC manufacturer in the world No they're not; they're the most profitable mobile phone manufacturer who also happens to make PC's.
jimmaswell 10y ago
It sounded ludicrous to me but apparently it's true that a lot of developers use Apple laptops. I don't get it, I've used an Apple computer for a week at a time a few times and it was thoroughly less convenient and more frustrating than on Windows, not even including having no Visual Studio and such.
- akvadrako 10y ago
  It's a lot about what you are used to. Most developers are creating websites or backends that run in unix-like environments and since OS X is a unix, it's a lot easier to transition or share between your workstation and production systems.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    But the same problem is between Linux and Mac. So many times did my bash scripts break on the ancient userland that comes with Mac OS. I do all my development in a Linux VM, and it's definitely a wide decision, seeing how many hours my colleagues waste setting up Postgres or Docker or even just Golang on their Macs. (Before you ask, I cannot boot into Linux directly because company policy.)
- jacquesm 10y ago
  I wouldn't know how to develop on either, Linux is so much more geared towards developers than Macs or windows computers. Even so, a Mac is closer to Linux than windows is, it's a full unix under the hood after all. Having the same environment on my workstation as on my servers always appealed to me (since my SGI days, when I would develop stuff on an indy and deploy on a challenge, basically a headless indy). But I can't imagine using OS/X as a server environment and windows seems just wrong as a server. So that leaves me with Linux, but I don't mind and I like the whole concept of open-source software.
  - OJFord 10y ago
    MacOS can be used like Linux for all but a tiling window manager (or changing DE/WM at all).
username223 10y ago
Devs are a tiny population compared to general smartphone/gadget users. As someone who pays the Apple premium for a reliable laptop that runs a Unix with good desktop applications, I wish they would put more work into developer-focused products, but there's too little money in it for a company of Apple's size. Back in the day, a company with a money-printing machine like the iPhone, e.g. Ma Bell with telephone service, would create a world-class R&D division inventing all sorts of stuff with no regard for short-term profit. Google X may have aspired to this at some point, but they seem to have backed off. Sadly, the modern company has eliminated this drag on quarterly profits.
- anindha 10y ago
  The iPhone is popular partly because of the apps that developers created. You could make an argument that making better developer laptops might lead to better iPhone sales.
  - lsadam0 10y ago
    There's no "could make..." to it. This is absolutely the case.
    - pokemongoaway 10y ago
      Haha... I feel like people very often hedge and undermine their own correct argumentation when they differ from something mainstream or powerful.
- lsadam0 10y ago
  Machines targeted solely at devs just seems like a no-brainer to me. Sure, you make no money on them. The value comes from enticing development for your ecosystem. The stagnation of the Mac Pro, and the disappointing MacBook Pro update really confuse me. I'm starting to perceive 1998 Microsoft levels of arrogance.
  - pokemongoaway 10y ago
pokemongoaway 10y ago
Exactly, and I just don't get why the average Joe is so motivated to defend large corporate decisions these days. Maybe it's a way to demonstrate that they know something about business and identify as "intelligent people?" I.e. "Well they wouldn't make as much then, you idiot - and why people who think like you aren't intelligent enough to work for them!" Anyone who has worked for a company the size of Apple should realize these all-or-nothing arguments aren't realistic. We have a lot of history of companies in tech rising and falling now, and anyone educated in that history has the ability to interpret Apple's recent choices as statements for what kind of legacy they want to create going forward...

valuearb 10y ago

Somehow despite their "disastrous desktop machines" and disappointing laptops, they are the highest revenue PC manufacturer in the world and make more profits making PCs than the rest of the market combined. And somehow they only sold $6B in Apple Watches it's first year, not only making it the most successful watch launch in history but the best selling watch in the world by revenues. Imagine if they'd only invest more!

jacquesm 10y ago
But that money is not made on PCs, it is mostly made on phones and tablets. Q1/17: 80M iphones, 10M+ ipads, 5M Macs. And margins on phones and pads are higher than on PCs too.
- valuearb 10y ago
  Which is one excuse given for the slow updates on the Mac side (one I don't buy). But again, Apple's Mac sales are over $25B a year,and it's profit margins on those sales are far higher (15% vs. 2-3%) than the other PC makers. It will never be as big as iPhone or iPad, but it's still one of the largest businesses in the entire world (it would just miss the Fortune 100 list on its own). It's sad they aren't doing a better job of updating the hardware, but so far it hasn't shown up in their sales.
  - pokemongoaway 10y ago
    Is this an argument for the status quo? That is, if "it doesn't show up in sales," then a tech company should feel comfortable doing which of the following? 1) Allowing software update issues 2) Alienating userbase who develops their software 3) Alienating pro audio users who want flexibility 4) ... Overlook any issue some user group has if they are winning in the market
EpicEng 10y ago
>Somehow despite their "disastrous desktop machines" and disappointing laptops, they are the highest revenue PC manufacturer in the world No they're not; they're the most profitable mobile phone manufacturer who also happens to make PC's.

jimmaswell 10y ago

It sounded ludicrous to me but apparently it's true that a lot of developers use Apple laptops. I don't get it, I've used an Apple computer for a week at a time a few times and it was thoroughly less convenient and more frustrating than on Windows, not even including having no Visual Studio and such.

akvadrako 10y ago
It's a lot about what you are used to. Most developers are creating websites or backends that run in unix-like environments and since OS X is a unix, it's a lot easier to transition or share between your workstation and production systems.
- majewsky 10y ago
  But the same problem is between Linux and Mac. So many times did my bash scripts break on the ancient userland that comes with Mac OS. I do all my development in a Linux VM, and it's definitely a wide decision, seeing how many hours my colleagues waste setting up Postgres or Docker or even just Golang on their Macs. (Before you ask, I cannot boot into Linux directly because company policy.)
jacquesm 10y ago
I wouldn't know how to develop on either, Linux is so much more geared towards developers than Macs or windows computers. Even so, a Mac is closer to Linux than windows is, it's a full unix under the hood after all. Having the same environment on my workstation as on my servers always appealed to me (since my SGI days, when I would develop stuff on an indy and deploy on a challenge, basically a headless indy). But I can't imagine using OS/X as a server environment and windows seems just wrong as a server. So that leaves me with Linux, but I don't mind and I like the whole concept of open-source software.
- OJFord 10y ago
  MacOS can be used like Linux for all but a tiling window manager (or changing DE/WM at all).

username223 10y ago

Devs are a tiny population compared to general smartphone/gadget users. As someone who pays the Apple premium for a reliable laptop that runs a Unix with good desktop applications, I wish they would put more work into developer-focused products, but there's too little money in it for a company of Apple's size. Back in the day, a company with a money-printing machine like the iPhone, e.g. Ma Bell with telephone service, would create a world-class R&D division inventing all sorts of stuff with no regard for short-term profit. Google X may have aspired to this at some point, but they seem to have backed off. Sadly, the modern company has eliminated this drag on quarterly profits.

anindha 10y ago
The iPhone is popular partly because of the apps that developers created. You could make an argument that making better developer laptops might lead to better iPhone sales.
- lsadam0 10y ago
  There's no "could make..." to it. This is absolutely the case.
  - pokemongoaway 10y ago
    Haha... I feel like people very often hedge and undermine their own correct argumentation when they differ from something mainstream or powerful.
lsadam0 10y ago
Machines targeted solely at devs just seems like a no-brainer to me. Sure, you make no money on them. The value comes from enticing development for your ecosystem. The stagnation of the Mac Pro, and the disappointing MacBook Pro update really confuse me. I'm starting to perceive 1998 Microsoft levels of arrogance.
- pokemongoaway 10y ago

pokemongoaway 10y ago

Exactly, and I just don't get why the average Joe is so motivated to defend large corporate decisions these days. Maybe it's a way to demonstrate that they know something about business and identify as "intelligent people?" I.e. "Well they wouldn't make as much then, you idiot - and why people who think like you aren't intelligent enough to work for them!" Anyone who has worked for a company the size of Apple should realize these all-or-nothing arguments aren't realistic. We have a lot of history of companies in tech rising and falling now, and anyone educated in that history has the ability to interpret Apple's recent choices as statements for what kind of legacy they want to create going forward...