5 ms·

> Customers still running prior versions of these products are encouraged to upgrade to a supported offering. That's a very polite way to say "fuck you, pay me

> Customers still running prior versions of these products are encouraged to upgrade to a supported offering. That's a very polite way to say "fuck you, pay me".

stordoff 10y ago
Windows 7 released in 2009, and MS will keep issuing security patches until 2020. They also responded to this on Friday/Saturday of Easter weekend. There's not a whole lot you can blame MS for here, except for the bugs existing in the first place (which is all but inevitable given the size of the codebase and the amount of scrutiny under which various groups put it).
- Markoff 10y ago
  the problem is not really Windows, but hardware abandoned by manufacturers, my mother has perfectly good/sufficient computer for her needs running Win7, which can't be upgraded any further (wanted to upgrade from Vista to W10 or W8, to find the most recent I can get is W7) because of video drivers not supported anymore and there is not really workaround, so it would require buying new video card, which in the end means I might as well just buy for her new Android tablet an get rid off PC or might as well, just install there Linux in the end
  - bigbugbag 10y ago
    The upgrade path from here is obvious enough: Linux.
  - dsp1234 10y ago
    because of video drivers not supported anymore and there is not really workaround, so it would require buying new video card A cheap 1GB video card can be had for $25.[0][1] And it is currently supported for the Windows 10 platform.[2] Which is not to say that Linux and/or an Android tablet wouldn't be the best solution, just that the purchase and installation of a new video card is maybe not as expensive as would seem. [0] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130880 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681413... [1] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%204093&IsNodeId=1 https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N... [2] - http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/112596/en-us http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/112596/en-...
    - Markoff 10y ago
      i am aware it's not so expensive, but compared to current value of computer is also not negligible amount anymore, thus i would not mind spending more money and have something more suitable for her needs, since she doesn't really need computer, though i would probably first try some up to date Linux distro
  - throwaway2048 10y ago
    If you are concerned about abandoned hardware with no updates, android is definitely the wrong choice.
    - Markoff 10y ago
      this is truth only regarding official ROMs if you choose the right device
      - throwaway2048 10y ago
        no, because eventually drivers will not be updated, and you will be stuck on an old version, no matter what.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  Hopefully you do not have a recent CPU as support for those will be dropped on any windows but 10. Microsoft tried to do this with skylake but met so much resistance that it pushed the date further for those and went on for the newer cpu only.
  - SyneRyder 10y ago
    Not sure why you were downvoted. Microsoft started blocking security updates on Windows 7 & 8 for Ryzen and Kabylake CPUs as of yesterday. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3189990/windows/microsoft-blocks-kaby-lake-and-ryzen-pcs-from-windows-7-81-updates.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3189990/windows/microsoft-blo...
jsz0 10y ago
You pay either way because Microsoft is not a charitable organization. Either you spend as much (if not more) upfront for ridiculously long term support or you pay for upgrades and get a better operating system every few years. For obvious reasons the overwhelming vast majority of the world has picked the second option.
beagle3 10y ago
On the other hand, how long do you expect them to support a product past its "use by" date?
- top_post 10y ago
  Agreed. For a comparison - https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html
  - sleepychu 10y ago
    It's a different deal though, I didn't pay anyone anything for my kernel, I did pay MS for Windows
    - sanxiyn 10y ago
      Did you pay enough for secure OS? Secure OS would probably be much more expensive than Windows.
    - pluma 10y ago
      So in your mind how long does that mean MS should support that version of Windows you bought? Seems like you're arguing MS should switch to a subscription-based model for Windows like most "continuously updated" software has because otherwise I don't see how you can expect them to provide you with free updates perpetually year-after-year after you paid them exactly once for software delivered as-is.
    - beagle3 10y ago
      And it said exactly how long it would be supported when you did (you can pay increasingly more per year to keep it supported, as some organizations do, if you insist) Personally, I avoid everything Microsoft, but I think their support horizon is fair. Tying telemetry to security isn't in my opinion, but it's a different discussion.
    - top_post 10y ago
      Something more relevant perhaps - https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_... So you can expect 3 years from Google for an Android device. Microsoft are already stretching well beyond that. They deserve their props.
top_post 10y ago
They officially researched and responded to what was going to be a fucking hyped out insane event at most major organizations on easter weekend. The fuck you goes to you, it's not the 90s anymore, Microsoft well and truly have their shit together.
- noir_lord 10y ago
  Agreed, 2017 MS is vastly almost inestimably better than 1997 Microsoft. I don't use their products (except vscode/typescript) but I appreciate the work they do anyway since windows botnets etc are an ever present threat to the fabric of services running on the internet.
  - bigbugbag 10y ago
    How could that be ? I wonder if the retirement of Ballmer has anything to do with it.
    - noir_lord 10y ago
      From what I recall they had a huge internal change to focus on security about a decade ago. They really threw resources at it with a top down driven focus to fix their security issues. It worked.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      The turnaround started in 2004, so, not so much.
- _jal 10y ago
  This is true. They've become vastly better citizens, in terms of their past nastiness and the externalities inflicted on the rest of us, and quite a bit more technically competent since the security push and the end of the Ballmer regime. Still seem abusive towards their customers, but that's most huge software companies, and doesn't bother me concretely, since I'm not one.
userbinator 10y ago
Unofficial patches will appear, if these are important enough for "Customers still running prior versions of these products". But looking at the list, all these exploits appear to be SMB server/RPC related; regardless of what Windows version you use, exposing that service to the Internet is not a good idea.
- mikaraento 10y ago
  Do note that an SMB exploit does give you privilege escalation once inside a network.

> Customers still running prior versions of these products are encouraged to upgrade to a supported offering. That's a very polite way to say "fuck you, pay me".

stordoff 10y ago

Windows 7 released in 2009, and MS will keep issuing security patches until 2020. They also responded to this on Friday/Saturday of Easter weekend. There's not a whole lot you can blame MS for here, except for the bugs existing in the first place (which is all but inevitable given the size of the codebase and the amount of scrutiny under which various groups put it).

Markoff 10y ago
the problem is not really Windows, but hardware abandoned by manufacturers, my mother has perfectly good/sufficient computer for her needs running Win7, which can't be upgraded any further (wanted to upgrade from Vista to W10 or W8, to find the most recent I can get is W7) because of video drivers not supported anymore and there is not really workaround, so it would require buying new video card, which in the end means I might as well just buy for her new Android tablet an get rid off PC or might as well, just install there Linux in the end
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  The upgrade path from here is obvious enough: Linux.
- dsp1234 10y ago
  because of video drivers not supported anymore and there is not really workaround, so it would require buying new video card A cheap 1GB video card can be had for $25.[0][1] And it is currently supported for the Windows 10 platform.[2] Which is not to say that Linux and/or an Android tablet wouldn't be the best solution, just that the purchase and installation of a new video card is maybe not as expensive as would seem. [0] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130880 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681413... [1] - https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%204093&IsNodeId=1 https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N... [2] - http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/112596/en-us http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/112596/en-...
  - Markoff 10y ago
    i am aware it's not so expensive, but compared to current value of computer is also not negligible amount anymore, thus i would not mind spending more money and have something more suitable for her needs, since she doesn't really need computer, though i would probably first try some up to date Linux distro
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  If you are concerned about abandoned hardware with no updates, android is definitely the wrong choice.
  - Markoff 10y ago
    this is truth only regarding official ROMs if you choose the right device
    - throwaway2048 10y ago
      no, because eventually drivers will not be updated, and you will be stuck on an old version, no matter what.
bigbugbag 10y ago
Hopefully you do not have a recent CPU as support for those will be dropped on any windows but 10. Microsoft tried to do this with skylake but met so much resistance that it pushed the date further for those and went on for the newer cpu only.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  Not sure why you were downvoted. Microsoft started blocking security updates on Windows 7 & 8 for Ryzen and Kabylake CPUs as of yesterday. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3189990/windows/microsoft-blocks-kaby-lake-and-ryzen-pcs-from-windows-7-81-updates.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3189990/windows/microsoft-blo...

jsz0 10y ago

You pay either way because Microsoft is not a charitable organization. Either you spend as much (if not more) upfront for ridiculously long term support or you pay for upgrades and get a better operating system every few years. For obvious reasons the overwhelming vast majority of the world has picked the second option.

beagle3 10y ago

On the other hand, how long do you expect them to support a product past its "use by" date?

top_post 10y ago
Agreed. For a comparison - https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html
- sleepychu 10y ago
  It's a different deal though, I didn't pay anyone anything for my kernel, I did pay MS for Windows
  - sanxiyn 10y ago
    Did you pay enough for secure OS? Secure OS would probably be much more expensive than Windows.
  - pluma 10y ago
    So in your mind how long does that mean MS should support that version of Windows you bought? Seems like you're arguing MS should switch to a subscription-based model for Windows like most "continuously updated" software has because otherwise I don't see how you can expect them to provide you with free updates perpetually year-after-year after you paid them exactly once for software delivered as-is.
  - beagle3 10y ago
    And it said exactly how long it would be supported when you did (you can pay increasingly more per year to keep it supported, as some organizations do, if you insist) Personally, I avoid everything Microsoft, but I think their support horizon is fair. Tying telemetry to security isn't in my opinion, but it's a different discussion.
  - top_post 10y ago
    Something more relevant perhaps - https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_... So you can expect 3 years from Google for an Android device. Microsoft are already stretching well beyond that. They deserve their props.

top_post 10y ago

They officially researched and responded to what was going to be a fucking hyped out insane event at most major organizations on easter weekend. The fuck you goes to you, it's not the 90s anymore, Microsoft well and truly have their shit together.

noir_lord 10y ago
Agreed, 2017 MS is vastly almost inestimably better than 1997 Microsoft. I don't use their products (except vscode/typescript) but I appreciate the work they do anyway since windows botnets etc are an ever present threat to the fabric of services running on the internet.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  How could that be ? I wonder if the retirement of Ballmer has anything to do with it.
  - noir_lord 10y ago
    From what I recall they had a huge internal change to focus on security about a decade ago. They really threw resources at it with a top down driven focus to fix their security issues. It worked.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    The turnaround started in 2004, so, not so much.
_jal 10y ago
This is true. They've become vastly better citizens, in terms of their past nastiness and the externalities inflicted on the rest of us, and quite a bit more technically competent since the security push and the end of the Ballmer regime. Still seem abusive towards their customers, but that's most huge software companies, and doesn't bother me concretely, since I'm not one.

userbinator 10y ago

Unofficial patches will appear, if these are important enough for "Customers still running prior versions of these products". But looking at the list, all these exploits appear to be SMB server/RPC related; regardless of what Windows version you use, exposing that service to the Internet is not a good idea.

mikaraento 10y ago
Do note that an SMB exploit does give you privilege escalation once inside a network.