9 ms·

>“I don’t think it would be American Express,” one diner said. “I feel like that would be braggy, like I’m trying to prove I’m a big shot.” >Others nodded in a

>“I don’t think it would be American Express,” one diner said. “I feel like that would be braggy, like I’m trying to prove I’m a big shot.” >Others nodded in agreement. “I’d probably use this,” said another, pulling out a blue-tinged credit card. “An Amex says you’re rich, but this says you’re interesting.” Where did they find these people? When did using the CSR become a statement? Everyone I know got it for the free money, and uses whatever card gets the most points for whatever purchase.

in_cahoots 9y ago
I think the real test will be how many people pay the renewal fee. You can get 2% cards for cheaper/free so in all but the most frequent travelers keeping it for a second year is more about the status symbol than the benefits.
- arcticbull 9y ago
  Freedom Unlimited + Reserve nets 2.25% cash back on everything and 4.5% on travel and dining, and the annual fee nets out to $150 once you take the travel credit into account. Used properly, it's probably the most rewarding card/combo out there.
  - xapata 9y ago
    I've been using Fidelity's 2% back AmEx since forever. I was happy when they changed it to Visa and kept the same rate. But for that extra .25% I might have to switch. Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
    - arcticbull 9y ago
      It is, yes, only when used for travel via their portal. Totally possible it's not worth it for you, but I certainly get by :) Being able to redeem as 2.25% cash if I want or 1.5X as airline miles is a ton of flexibility. Means if I want to fly Korean First to Asia, its 80K miles one-way. If I find a cheap flight, it's often better to redeem as cash. I fly a lot though. The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!
      - seanp2k2 9y ago
        Yep, double cash for most things, chase sapphire for travel and food things. The double cash gets stolen every couple of months, tons of skimmers while traveling or in gas station pumps. I even had someone steal a new card from my mailbox at an apartment complex and use it to get $60 worth of McDonalds then a few hundred worth of Diesel jeans. It got flagged for the McDonalds (I almost never eat fast food), I got alerted via text, and had it cancelled + a new card overnighted to me. My most recent compromise was a $0.15 charge in Capetown followed by half a dozen transactions with TopHatter which appears to be a sleazy auction site for dollar-store quality crap and not-so-hot fraud detection. I do hate that they must read the script to me each and every time it gets compromised, since it's so routine for me at this point...it's like being forced to listen to an Indian person (no offense, but their call centers / call center subcontractors are there) read you the EULA for software. It'd be nice if they saw that since you've already had your card stolen half a dozen times in the past year and a half, they can skip the formalities.
        xapata 9y ago
        I have my cards email me every transaction so that I can spot these events quickly. Ironically, after I set that up, my number hasn't been stolen. It had been stolen 4 times previously. My favorite was when the fraud agent asked me, "Did you purchase 150 lbs of concrete in Mexico yesterday?" Just after he had verified I was traveling somewhere else.
        macNchz 9y ago
        I get push notifications from the Chase app every time my card is used. Just last night I caught a fradulent transaction that way...the merchant name was "ONLINE SHOP ORDER", which was interesting since it that name is seemingly a merchant account set up explicitly to mask fraudulent transactions. Having push notifications is also a great way to remember to cancel unused recurring subscriptions. I'm always super impressed with the speed that the notifications come through when I'm checking out somewhere. I'll get a notification on my phone over a flaky 4G connection before the CC reader pops up the 'Approved' screen. Lot of computers talking to each other to make that happen... Similary when my card was canceled last night after the fradulent transaction I got a notification before I even got off the phone with the fraud agent that the replacement cars number had been added to my Apple Pay. Pretty cool!
    - IncRnd 9y ago
      Same here. I've used the card for years, since it was the Amex. It gives 2% back on everything and has been flawless for me. I've toyed with other cards that give higher rates, but those that I've looked at are always for restricted categories.
  - scarmig 9y ago
    Throw in a regular Freedom and an Ink Cash, gift cards, etc. and you can do even better, though at some point keeping track of it all starts having its own cost.
    - arcticbull 9y ago
      Haha yeah, my combo is: 5X rotating bonus categories on Freedom. 5X airfare on Amex Platinum. 3X travel and dining on Sapphire Reserve. 1.5X non-bonusable spend on Freedom Unlimited. I haven't averaged my return but its, uh, high :) I feel better about the time spent since its sort of a hobby.
      - lenzm 9y ago
        I think you can do a little better if you replace your Freedom Unlimited with a Capital One Venture card and get 2x on everything else.
        arcticbull 9y ago
        So if you earn 1.5 UR per dollar with the Freedom Unlimited then use their Combine Points feature to move it to the Sapphire Reserve's UR balance, each one becomes worth 1.5c towards travel, netting 2.25% :) or transferable to Korean, Singapore, United, BA, Hyatt or a couple of less interesting other options.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        There are also PQD waivers for United (sorry :-)) for spend on Chase's co-branded cards. I get a United Club membership anyway so that card works for me. My travel patterns are such that I get decent status on qualifying miles but dollars are iffy.
- sidrajaram 9y ago
  A CSR returns 4.5% on travel/dining, if you only redeem on travel through the Chase portal, which is not a ripoff based on when I've checked and what I've read (you can get even better effective rates if you transfer miles to airlines strategically). That means if you spend > $6000/yr on travel/dining (which includes uber/lyft/taxis and hotels/airbnbs besides the usual), you're going to come out ahead of the $150 fee ($450 fee - $300 travel credit) as compared to a no-fee 2% cash back card. The $300 travel credit won't count, so change that $6k to $6.3k. This is well within reason for a lot of white collar folks.
  - larrysalibra 9y ago
    The Amex Platinum Card for Schwab [1] returns 6.25% cash[2] for airfare from airlines & amextravel purchases. If you can get the 400 of value from the travel & Uber credits, you break even with $2400 of spending in the 5x point categories and quickly do better than a no fee 2% cash back card. --- CSR is great if you can redeem through their portal. I mostly travel in Asia and Europe where discount airlines don't seem to be in either chase or Amex's travel portals. The traditional carrier flights they offer are usually 2-3x more expensive than the AirAsias of the world. 1: http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/credit_cards http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_produ... 2: 1 MR = 1.25 cents deposited in Schwab account
    - ajdlinux 9y ago
      Discount airlines typically don't appear in travel portals as one of the ways low-cost carriers try to be low cost is by minimising travel agent commissions.
swang 9y ago
Yeah that feels like it was planted in there. Does anyone really think owning a credit card makes you interesting? Especially one that is produced for the masses? (at least the ones who can afford the $ amount for it....) Almost every single friend/acquaintance I know has _that_ card and no one thinks each other is more interesting because of it. It was essentially for the 100,000 points (+ travel perks)
- booleandilemma 9y ago
  I found that part of the article so amusing that I was about to share it with some friends, and then I started to wonder if I was making myself part of some kind of viral marketing ploy.
  - m-j-fox 9y ago
    You techies with your fancy ad blockers just read, and are now earnestly discussing a 10 page ad. Someone's getting a raise.
    - rhaps0dy 9y ago
      I think you hit the nail in the head. http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html I'm ashamed of myself now.
- untog 9y ago
  I actually hate that it's made of thicker metal. When I use it I feel like I look like the exact kind of idiot the article mentions, who thinks that their card being "clunk"ier makes them look more impressive.
- true_religion 9y ago
  Random people have commented on my Chase Saphire card, complimenting the weight, joking about how 'rich' I must obviously be. It's just a thick card because it was one of the original pin & chips. It's old. The annual fee is $90. That's less than most people pay per month for cable TV. I'm not sure why it gets so many looks, but I will admit most people just carry bank cards in this area.
JimboOmega 9y ago
People like the metal. Plus, in my experience, most of my friends have it, so it's kind of like a... "ooh you got one too?" social experience.
praneshp 9y ago
It's a NYT shtick. It's not that difficult to find a person that speaks like that, and NYT finds that person for their articles. Since getting a subscription, I've also been turned off by the tone of their reporting on political articles, where they border on sarcasm without actually saying anything negative.
Rapzid 9y ago
I can't recall a single time where I or anyone I was with or near had ever commented on, thought anything of, or even really noticed what card somebody else was using to pay for food with.
- jschwartzi 9y ago
  People occasionally notice my USAA card, but it's more of a shibboleth for military families than for affluence.
  - hbosch 9y ago
    I get this with my Navy Federal card. I dont have any "prestige" cards but I'd be surprised if anyone got more attention for them than I get for my standard issue NF debit.
  - mrdmnd 9y ago
    I've noticed this too. I'm not actually in the military, but my grandfather was a doctor in the Navy and apparently we've been (literally) grandfathered in for perpetuity. The card has raised eyebrows in places I would not have imagined it would be noticed.
    - jschwartzi 9y ago
      That's almost exactly my situation. My dad was in the Army, so I'm grandfathered in, as well as anyone in my immediate family.
  - brookside 9y ago
    Only somewhat relatedly, The content of the constant ASAA ads during sporting events on TV strikes me as indirect but blatant military propaganda.
- morgante 9y ago
  I definitely notice and talk about cards with some friends, but not due to prestige so much as churning.
rjeli 9y ago
In my yuppie group of friends, a CSR is a pretty strong wealth signal. we're probably just overly competitive and shallow, but some people definitely pay attention
- smt88 9y ago
  My friend makes $30k as a PhD and has a CSR.
  - rjeli 9y ago
    okay, maybe not wealth signal. more of a pissing match.
  - dsacco 9y ago
    I feel people are a bit out of touch with how easy it is to get these "exclusive" credit cards if you just have a good credit score. The income is helpful but unnecessary for essentially everything but a Centurion.
  - branchless 9y ago
    Exactly. Amex get their income from a cut on purchases, and that cut is larger than any other provider. They then take this money and spend it on advertising to try and convince stupid people they are joining some exclusive "club".
- srtjstjsj 9y ago
  Your circle of friends are the people American Psycho was about?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - sxates 9y ago
    Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
    - 9y ago

in_cahoots 9y ago

I think the real test will be how many people pay the renewal fee. You can get 2% cards for cheaper/free so in all but the most frequent travelers keeping it for a second year is more about the status symbol than the benefits.

arcticbull 9y ago
Freedom Unlimited + Reserve nets 2.25% cash back on everything and 4.5% on travel and dining, and the annual fee nets out to $150 once you take the travel credit into account. Used properly, it's probably the most rewarding card/combo out there.
- xapata 9y ago
  I've been using Fidelity's 2% back AmEx since forever. I was happy when they changed it to Visa and kept the same rate. But for that extra .25% I might have to switch. Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
  - arcticbull 9y ago
    It is, yes, only when used for travel via their portal. Totally possible it's not worth it for you, but I certainly get by :) Being able to redeem as 2.25% cash if I want or 1.5X as airline miles is a ton of flexibility. Means if I want to fly Korean First to Asia, its 80K miles one-way. If I find a cheap flight, it's often better to redeem as cash. I fly a lot though. The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      Yep, double cash for most things, chase sapphire for travel and food things. The double cash gets stolen every couple of months, tons of skimmers while traveling or in gas station pumps. I even had someone steal a new card from my mailbox at an apartment complex and use it to get $60 worth of McDonalds then a few hundred worth of Diesel jeans. It got flagged for the McDonalds (I almost never eat fast food), I got alerted via text, and had it cancelled + a new card overnighted to me. My most recent compromise was a $0.15 charge in Capetown followed by half a dozen transactions with TopHatter which appears to be a sleazy auction site for dollar-store quality crap and not-so-hot fraud detection. I do hate that they must read the script to me each and every time it gets compromised, since it's so routine for me at this point...it's like being forced to listen to an Indian person (no offense, but their call centers / call center subcontractors are there) read you the EULA for software. It'd be nice if they saw that since you've already had your card stolen half a dozen times in the past year and a half, they can skip the formalities.
      - xapata 9y ago
        I have my cards email me every transaction so that I can spot these events quickly. Ironically, after I set that up, my number hasn't been stolen. It had been stolen 4 times previously. My favorite was when the fraud agent asked me, "Did you purchase 150 lbs of concrete in Mexico yesterday?" Just after he had verified I was traveling somewhere else.
        macNchz 9y ago
        I get push notifications from the Chase app every time my card is used. Just last night I caught a fradulent transaction that way...the merchant name was "ONLINE SHOP ORDER", which was interesting since it that name is seemingly a merchant account set up explicitly to mask fraudulent transactions. Having push notifications is also a great way to remember to cancel unused recurring subscriptions. I'm always super impressed with the speed that the notifications come through when I'm checking out somewhere. I'll get a notification on my phone over a flaky 4G connection before the CC reader pops up the 'Approved' screen. Lot of computers talking to each other to make that happen... Similary when my card was canceled last night after the fradulent transaction I got a notification before I even got off the phone with the fraud agent that the replacement cars number had been added to my Apple Pay. Pretty cool!
  - IncRnd 9y ago
    Same here. I've used the card for years, since it was the Amex. It gives 2% back on everything and has been flawless for me. I've toyed with other cards that give higher rates, but those that I've looked at are always for restricted categories.
- scarmig 9y ago
  Throw in a regular Freedom and an Ink Cash, gift cards, etc. and you can do even better, though at some point keeping track of it all starts having its own cost.
  - arcticbull 9y ago
    Haha yeah, my combo is: 5X rotating bonus categories on Freedom. 5X airfare on Amex Platinum. 3X travel and dining on Sapphire Reserve. 1.5X non-bonusable spend on Freedom Unlimited. I haven't averaged my return but its, uh, high :) I feel better about the time spent since its sort of a hobby.
    - lenzm 9y ago
      I think you can do a little better if you replace your Freedom Unlimited with a Capital One Venture card and get 2x on everything else.
      - arcticbull 9y ago
        So if you earn 1.5 UR per dollar with the Freedom Unlimited then use their Combine Points feature to move it to the Sapphire Reserve's UR balance, each one becomes worth 1.5c towards travel, netting 2.25% :) or transferable to Korean, Singapore, United, BA, Hyatt or a couple of less interesting other options.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      There are also PQD waivers for United (sorry :-)) for spend on Chase's co-branded cards. I get a United Club membership anyway so that card works for me. My travel patterns are such that I get decent status on qualifying miles but dollars are iffy.
sidrajaram 9y ago
A CSR returns 4.5% on travel/dining, if you only redeem on travel through the Chase portal, which is not a ripoff based on when I've checked and what I've read (you can get even better effective rates if you transfer miles to airlines strategically). That means if you spend > $6000/yr on travel/dining (which includes uber/lyft/taxis and hotels/airbnbs besides the usual), you're going to come out ahead of the $150 fee ($450 fee - $300 travel credit) as compared to a no-fee 2% cash back card. The $300 travel credit won't count, so change that $6k to $6.3k. This is well within reason for a lot of white collar folks.
- larrysalibra 9y ago
  The Amex Platinum Card for Schwab [1] returns 6.25% cash[2] for airfare from airlines & amextravel purchases. If you can get the 400 of value from the travel & Uber credits, you break even with $2400 of spending in the 5x point categories and quickly do better than a no fee 2% cash back card. --- CSR is great if you can redeem through their portal. I mostly travel in Asia and Europe where discount airlines don't seem to be in either chase or Amex's travel portals. The traditional carrier flights they offer are usually 2-3x more expensive than the AirAsias of the world. 1: http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/credit_cards http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_produ... 2: 1 MR = 1.25 cents deposited in Schwab account
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    Discount airlines typically don't appear in travel portals as one of the ways low-cost carriers try to be low cost is by minimising travel agent commissions.

swang 9y ago

Yeah that feels like it was planted in there. Does anyone really think owning a credit card makes you interesting? Especially one that is produced for the masses? (at least the ones who can afford the $ amount for it....) Almost every single friend/acquaintance I know has _that_ card and no one thinks each other is more interesting because of it. It was essentially for the 100,000 points (+ travel perks)

booleandilemma 9y ago
I found that part of the article so amusing that I was about to share it with some friends, and then I started to wonder if I was making myself part of some kind of viral marketing ploy.
- m-j-fox 9y ago
  You techies with your fancy ad blockers just read, and are now earnestly discussing a 10 page ad. Someone's getting a raise.
  - rhaps0dy 9y ago
    I think you hit the nail in the head. http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html I'm ashamed of myself now.
untog 9y ago
I actually hate that it's made of thicker metal. When I use it I feel like I look like the exact kind of idiot the article mentions, who thinks that their card being "clunk"ier makes them look more impressive.
true_religion 9y ago
Random people have commented on my Chase Saphire card, complimenting the weight, joking about how 'rich' I must obviously be. It's just a thick card because it was one of the original pin & chips. It's old. The annual fee is $90. That's less than most people pay per month for cable TV. I'm not sure why it gets so many looks, but I will admit most people just carry bank cards in this area.

JimboOmega 9y ago

People like the metal. Plus, in my experience, most of my friends have it, so it's kind of like a... "ooh you got one too?" social experience.

praneshp 9y ago

It's a NYT shtick. It's not that difficult to find a person that speaks like that, and NYT finds that person for their articles. Since getting a subscription, I've also been turned off by the tone of their reporting on political articles, where they border on sarcasm without actually saying anything negative.

Rapzid 9y ago

I can't recall a single time where I or anyone I was with or near had ever commented on, thought anything of, or even really noticed what card somebody else was using to pay for food with.

jschwartzi 9y ago
People occasionally notice my USAA card, but it's more of a shibboleth for military families than for affluence.
- hbosch 9y ago
  I get this with my Navy Federal card. I dont have any "prestige" cards but I'd be surprised if anyone got more attention for them than I get for my standard issue NF debit.
- mrdmnd 9y ago
  I've noticed this too. I'm not actually in the military, but my grandfather was a doctor in the Navy and apparently we've been (literally) grandfathered in for perpetuity. The card has raised eyebrows in places I would not have imagined it would be noticed.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    That's almost exactly my situation. My dad was in the Army, so I'm grandfathered in, as well as anyone in my immediate family.
- brookside 9y ago
  Only somewhat relatedly, The content of the constant ASAA ads during sporting events on TV strikes me as indirect but blatant military propaganda.
morgante 9y ago
I definitely notice and talk about cards with some friends, but not due to prestige so much as churning.

rjeli 9y ago

In my yuppie group of friends, a CSR is a pretty strong wealth signal. we're probably just overly competitive and shallow, but some people definitely pay attention

smt88 9y ago
My friend makes $30k as a PhD and has a CSR.
- rjeli 9y ago
  okay, maybe not wealth signal. more of a pissing match.
- dsacco 9y ago
  I feel people are a bit out of touch with how easy it is to get these "exclusive" credit cards if you just have a good credit score. The income is helpful but unnecessary for essentially everything but a Centurion.
- branchless 9y ago
  Exactly. Amex get their income from a cut on purchases, and that cut is larger than any other provider. They then take this money and spend it on advertising to try and convince stupid people they are joining some exclusive "club".
srtjstjsj 9y ago
Your circle of friends are the people American Psycho was about?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sxates 9y ago
  Oh my god, it even has a watermark.
  - 9y ago