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It doesn't seem very forward thinking to start a new app in whats essentially a deprecated language.

penpapersw 9y ago
Very good point. I addressed our reasoning behind choosing Objective-C to some extent in the previous blog post[1]. A big reason behind this was to minimize the binary size, which means a much faster download. Because we used Objective-C and didn't use any third party code, our todo-list app Accomplish[2] is only 289 KB, whereas the most similar competing app (MinimaList) is 8.8 MB and almost all the other competing apps are between 60 and 80 MB each. It may seem like an unnecessary optimization, but we're hoping a faster download/install experience, along with close attention to detail in other ways, will give our app a competitive edge. [1] http://penandpapersoftware.com/blog/2017-04-13-using-objc-for-ios-instead-of-swift/ http://penandpapersoftware.com/blog/2017-04-13-using-objc-fo... [2] http://penandpapersoftware.com/accomplish/ http://penandpapersoftware.com/accomplish/
0x0 9y ago
For many apps, especially those that aren't AAA with a full team of dedicated engineers behind them, the constant churn of Swift major version upgrades is a pretty good argument for just sticking with Objective-C.
- melling 9y ago
  Swift 3 was a major breaking upgrade. Apple has already stated that 4.0 will not have large breaking changes. Swift is open source so you can follow its development.
  - 0x0 9y ago
    That's nice. But until then, having to re-learn idiomatic Swift every major version, and having to comb through all of your source code to ensure it's still doing what you expect in the new version (automatic migration or not) is a lot of extra effort that you simply don't need to put in with Objective-C. And another nice bonus is that you get to shave off about 10mb of swift runtime from your .ipa.
dep_b 9y ago
Objective-C is not deprecated at all. It's impossible to deprecate it in the near future since it's so heavily used in frameworks at Apple that nobody with a right mind wants to rewrite. The only thing to look forward is is ABI stability for Swift, meaning it's a grown up language and we don't need to pack the runtime with every Swift app anymore.
pavlov 9y ago
If you have people who know Objective-C, there's no gain in being "forward thinking" for its own sake. But if you're not playing with your own money, sure, why not spend extra development time to bring everyone up to speed on what Swift looks like this year - it won't make the app any better and will cost more, but improves the team's résumés.
- ruleabidinguser 9y ago
  I think better support and better code is a benefit, but thats just me. You sound like youve gotten rubbed in the past by this, no? And by the way, "forward thinking" is not something you can be or do for its own sake. Think about it. That doesnt even make sense.
- LeoNatan25 9y ago
  Don't forget the next year, when Apple yet again breaks the language and you have to take all your large codebase and convert it to Swift (x+1).
  - melling 9y ago
    There might be a handful of changes in the future but it won't be anything like 2 to 3. I imagine that the automatic converter will get most of them. Swift is open source so you'll know all changes well in advance.
mightykan 9y ago
Objective-C isn’t deprecated at all. There is more chance of current valid Swift code being deprecated in a year than Objective-C. In fact, all Swift code written in its first two years of public existence is completely deprecated now. The same code, had it been written in Objective-C would be perfectly valid today.
- melling 9y ago
  It's not to hard to convert to Swift 3.0. Apple's converter helps a lot. I documented most of the things I had to change. https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/my-ios-10-and-swift-3-refactor-list/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/my-ios-10-and-swift-...
  - LeoNatan25 9y ago
    That's gross oversimplification and misleading. I was recently given the source of a large iOS app belonging to a company that our company purchased. The code is very well written, just has not been maintained past Swift 2. The converter did more hard than it solved. Xcode Swift converter is only good for small projects with no advanced language use.

Very good point. I addressed our reasoning behind choosing Objective-C to some extent in the previous blog post[1]. A big reason behind this was to minimize the binary size, which means a much faster download. Because we used Objective-C and didn't use any third party code, our todo-list app Accomplish[2] is only 289 KB, whereas the most similar competing app (MinimaList) is 8.8 MB and almost all the other competing apps are between 60 and 80 MB each. It may seem like an unnecessary optimization, but we're hoping a faster download/install experience, along with close attention to detail in other ways, will give our app a competitive edge. [1] http://penandpapersoftware.com/blog/2017-04-13-using-objc-for-ios-instead-of-swift/ http://penandpapersoftware.com/blog/2017-04-13-using-objc-fo... [2] http://penandpapersoftware.com/accomplish/ http://penandpapersoftware.com/accomplish/

0x0 9y ago

For many apps, especially those that aren't AAA with a full team of dedicated engineers behind them, the constant churn of Swift major version upgrades is a pretty good argument for just sticking with Objective-C.

melling 9y ago
Swift 3 was a major breaking upgrade. Apple has already stated that 4.0 will not have large breaking changes. Swift is open source so you can follow its development.
- 0x0 9y ago
  That's nice. But until then, having to re-learn idiomatic Swift every major version, and having to comb through all of your source code to ensure it's still doing what you expect in the new version (automatic migration or not) is a lot of extra effort that you simply don't need to put in with Objective-C. And another nice bonus is that you get to shave off about 10mb of swift runtime from your .ipa.

dep_b 9y ago

Objective-C is not deprecated at all. It's impossible to deprecate it in the near future since it's so heavily used in frameworks at Apple that nobody with a right mind wants to rewrite. The only thing to look forward is is ABI stability for Swift, meaning it's a grown up language and we don't need to pack the runtime with every Swift app anymore.

pavlov 9y ago

If you have people who know Objective-C, there's no gain in being "forward thinking" for its own sake. But if you're not playing with your own money, sure, why not spend extra development time to bring everyone up to speed on what Swift looks like this year - it won't make the app any better and will cost more, but improves the team's résumés.

ruleabidinguser 9y ago
I think better support and better code is a benefit, but thats just me. You sound like youve gotten rubbed in the past by this, no? And by the way, "forward thinking" is not something you can be or do for its own sake. Think about it. That doesnt even make sense.
LeoNatan25 9y ago
Don't forget the next year, when Apple yet again breaks the language and you have to take all your large codebase and convert it to Swift (x+1).
- melling 9y ago
  There might be a handful of changes in the future but it won't be anything like 2 to 3. I imagine that the automatic converter will get most of them. Swift is open source so you'll know all changes well in advance.

mightykan 9y ago

Objective-C isn’t deprecated at all. There is more chance of current valid Swift code being deprecated in a year than Objective-C. In fact, all Swift code written in its first two years of public existence is completely deprecated now. The same code, had it been written in Objective-C would be perfectly valid today.

melling 9y ago
It's not to hard to convert to Swift 3.0. Apple's converter helps a lot. I documented most of the things I had to change. https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/my-ios-10-and-swift-3-refactor-list/ https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/my-ios-10-and-swift-...
- LeoNatan25 9y ago
  That's gross oversimplification and misleading. I was recently given the source of a large iOS app belonging to a company that our company purchased. The code is very well written, just has not been maintained past Swift 2. The converter did more hard than it solved. Xcode Swift converter is only good for small projects with no advanced language use.