5 ms·

Why United Was Legally Wrong to Deplane David Dao

36 points by donald123 10y ago

basseq 10y ago
This is a very good writeup. I think we can all agree about the terrible perception this has on United (and once you have perception, facts don't matter). But clearly outlines that the facts are against United, too. Whether he knew it or not, good on David Dao for standing up for his legal rights.
corememory 10y ago
After the lawsuits against United and the City of Chicago are settled and the damages are paid, I predict that no one at the top will be held accountable and no structural change will take place at either United or the Chicago Aviation Police. We live in a plutocracy and the wealthy take care of their own.
- peterwwillis 10y ago
  Technically the people take care of the wealthy by buying their products and voting their sycophants into office.
peterwwillis 10y ago
Man, modern journalism is really lame. > Videos also show a clearly injured Dao returning to the plane, walking up and down the aisle and muttering that he needed to get home. He was then escorted off the plane a second time. A gonzo journalist would write: "show Dao returning to the plane, walking up and down the aisles, then staring into space, muttering that he needs to go home, and repeating 'just kill me' over and over in an urgent tone, hair matted, toilet paper wedged against his bloodied face. He had the near-death shock of an asian tourist who'd gotten lost on the way back to his hotel after leaving a bar usually patronized by a "certain type" on the outskirts of Acapulco, only to be kidnapped, strip-searched, and terrorized for 48 hours by paranoid men with AK-47s snorting cocaine and sporting "ZETAS" tattoos. He was then escorted off the plane a second time." Also - "vicious memes" ? Ripping someone out of their seat and dragging them through a plane can be vicious, but jpegs cannot.
dragontamer 10y ago
I really wish that these people would describe their legal authority. If they were a lawyer, what they practice in, etc. etc. This man is a professor of law and associate dean... which means his opinion is pretty good but he's not necessarily a practicing lawyer. With that said: by breaking the contract with Dr. Dao, it would seem that United is therefore required to pay up the cost of Dr. Dao's ticket. It isn't too hard to come up with a situation where passengers are already boarded, but then are forced off the plane. (Ex: weather conditions change. Another airliner crashes in the runway, causing an unknown amount of delay, etc. etc.). Surely under such a situation, all the "already boarded" passengers will be forced off the plane, and probably refunded the full value of their ticket. --------- But under no circumstances is there actually a requirement to fly every passenger. I'd expect that the absolute limit that can be forced onto United Airlines is the ~$1350 cash + Refunded Plane Ticket. Well, aside from the broken nose and concussion. But that's the Chicago Police's problem, not United.
- thatcat 10y ago
  It seems like walmarts strategy to under secure its business and instead use local police is used by airlines too, to avoid cost and liability of hiring their own security at the expense of the public.
  - dragontamer 10y ago
    I dunno. I feel like the one thing that everyone agrees upon is that the use of force _should_ be monopolized to the Police. IE: Its the TSA who checks your genitals when you go into the airport. Not the private airlines. And that's a good thing: because in theory we have the ability to control the TSA. At least, more so than we have the ability to control any particular airliner.
    - URSpider94 10y ago
      Yes, but -- The counter argument is that businesses should be expected to conduct their business such that they do not need to call on the police to use force. Especially if, by escalating to police, they are effectively avoiding the inherent costs of doing business. In this case, they could have offered another $1,000 apiece to get those last two volunteers, but there's no need to do that when you can just call the cops to drag passengers off the plane at no cost. Likewise, Wal-Mart has been widely criticized for not taking any steps to manage or problem-solve any issues in their stores, instead just relying on calls to police.

36 points by donald123 10y ago

This is a very good writeup. I think we can all agree about the terrible perception this has on United (and once you have perception, facts don't matter). But clearly outlines that the facts are against United, too. Whether he knew it or not, good on David Dao for standing up for his legal rights.

corememory 10y ago

After the lawsuits against United and the City of Chicago are settled and the damages are paid, I predict that no one at the top will be held accountable and no structural change will take place at either United or the Chicago Aviation Police. We live in a plutocracy and the wealthy take care of their own.

peterwwillis 10y ago
Technically the people take care of the wealthy by buying their products and voting their sycophants into office.

peterwwillis 10y ago

Man, modern journalism is really lame. > Videos also show a clearly injured Dao returning to the plane, walking up and down the aisle and muttering that he needed to get home. He was then escorted off the plane a second time. A gonzo journalist would write: "show Dao returning to the plane, walking up and down the aisles, then staring into space, muttering that he needs to go home, and repeating 'just kill me' over and over in an urgent tone, hair matted, toilet paper wedged against his bloodied face. He had the near-death shock of an asian tourist who'd gotten lost on the way back to his hotel after leaving a bar usually patronized by a "certain type" on the outskirts of Acapulco, only to be kidnapped, strip-searched, and terrorized for 48 hours by paranoid men with AK-47s snorting cocaine and sporting "ZETAS" tattoos. He was then escorted off the plane a second time." Also - "vicious memes" ? Ripping someone out of their seat and dragging them through a plane can be vicious, but jpegs cannot.

dragontamer 10y ago

I really wish that these people would describe their legal authority. If they were a lawyer, what they practice in, etc. etc. This man is a professor of law and associate dean... which means his opinion is pretty good but he's not necessarily a practicing lawyer. With that said: by breaking the contract with Dr. Dao, it would seem that United is therefore required to pay up the cost of Dr. Dao's ticket. It isn't too hard to come up with a situation where passengers are already boarded, but then are forced off the plane. (Ex: weather conditions change. Another airliner crashes in the runway, causing an unknown amount of delay, etc. etc.). Surely under such a situation, all the "already boarded" passengers will be forced off the plane, and probably refunded the full value of their ticket. --------- But under no circumstances is there actually a requirement to fly every passenger. I'd expect that the absolute limit that can be forced onto United Airlines is the ~$1350 cash + Refunded Plane Ticket. Well, aside from the broken nose and concussion. But that's the Chicago Police's problem, not United.

thatcat 10y ago
It seems like walmarts strategy to under secure its business and instead use local police is used by airlines too, to avoid cost and liability of hiring their own security at the expense of the public.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  I dunno. I feel like the one thing that everyone agrees upon is that the use of force _should_ be monopolized to the Police. IE: Its the TSA who checks your genitals when you go into the airport. Not the private airlines. And that's a good thing: because in theory we have the ability to control the TSA. At least, more so than we have the ability to control any particular airliner.
  - URSpider94 10y ago
    Yes, but -- The counter argument is that businesses should be expected to conduct their business such that they do not need to call on the police to use force. Especially if, by escalating to police, they are effectively avoiding the inherent costs of doing business. In this case, they could have offered another $1,000 apiece to get those last two volunteers, but there's no need to do that when you can just call the cops to drag passengers off the plane at no cost. Likewise, Wal-Mart has been widely criticized for not taking any steps to manage or problem-solve any issues in their stores, instead just relying on calls to police.