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That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankfully): - housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage... - housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe) - prices are generally quite high - internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back - outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations) - food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. Would be very happy to hear stories that made the move ! Also very interested to hear about opportunities / work environment there in IT (even better if it's ML related).

bspn 10y ago
I too am considering a move to NZ for family reasons, and visited Auckland last month. It truly is a spectacular city framed by an amazing harbor, but it's not without some faults. My thoughts on the cons you raise based on conversations I had with a few locals: > housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage.. Yes, it really is crazy particularly when you look at prices relative to salaries. As I understand it, the primary driver is everyone wants to live in Auckland as that's where most of the higher paying jobs are located which is driving up prices. Also, given the city is on an isthmus, the main space is really North and South of the city which increases commute times on already clogged highways. > housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe) This is slowly changing as proper insulation becomes a requirement, but compared to Europe and US houses the quality is incredibly poor. > prices are generally quite high For consumer goods, absolutely. Also dining out seemed expensive, but supermarket costs seemed pretty reasonable given the quality of the food. >internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back I was pleasantly surprised by this. I was regularly getting 50-100 down where I stayed, and it appears the government has made ultra-fast broadband a national priority so it should hopefully continue to improve over the next decade. One thing people warned me though is don't expect anything to happen quickly in NZ. >outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city. >food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. I believe this is largely driven by income inequality, much like here in the US. While the food really is phenomenal quality, families at the lower end of the socio-economic ladder are often priced out of the market and default to unhealthy options as a matter of necessity. Also, it was explained to me that a lot of Maori and Polynesian recipes are very fatty which is why they tend to be over-represented in obesity statistics. Overall my impression after visiting is that it's a great country, but it's not perfect. Prices are higher (due to it's isolation) and salaries are lower, but people tend to worry less about materialistic things and "getting ahead". There seems to be more of a relaxed mood to everything and as my wife contemplate where we want to raise our kids that is hugely appealing.
- jly 10y ago
  My wife is an expat kiwi and we visit NZ every year since most of her family lives there still. We have also been contemplating a move back from the US, but housing prices (especially Auckland, but everywhere that isn't rural farmland is an issue) and lower salaries are the only thing preventing us, still. Auckland is an amazing city but it's so incredibly congested and expensive that unless you are wealthy or in the housing market already, it's very difficult to make a go there. > Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city. I was last in Chch a couples years ago, so it may be changing, but my impression was not great. My wife lived there during the earthquake and their recovery has been slow. I think it will improve, especially with increased investment, but it's probably years away from being anywhere like Auckland or Wellington again. Even 2-3 years ago the downtown area was essentially a ghost town from what I remember, and that's still several years post-earthquake.
  - EdwardDiego 10y ago
    Yeah, the rebuild is very slow, which frustrates the locals no end, but it's happening. CBD (aka "downtown") area aside, we've never stopped being like Auckland or Wellington - we have overpriced houses and congested motorways too!
    - dvtv75 10y ago
      My understanding was also that Christchurch is the most dangerous city in the country, but I've no figures to back that up. My ex lives up there, and when I stayed with her family they had me lock the car door when we were driving through the central city, something that I found very odd, and not at all reassuring.
      - mkl 10y ago
        I live in Christchurch and that's news to me. The central city is best avoided for other reasons: the 2010-2011 earthquakes disproportionately affected the old buildings there and the rebuild means it's a constantly shifting maze of closed roads and detours. This is now hardly noticeable in most of the rest of the city. I found an article [1] about it which contradicts your understanding of the crime here. Auckland is much worse as a city overall, but Cathedral Square in Christchurch is dangerous compared to the rest of the country. I can't find a good comparison of actual crime rates between countries, but did find articles saying the perception of crime risk is way off here compared to reality. 1. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79704084/New-Zealand-rates-for-assaults-sexual-assaults-and-robberies-in-2015-mapped http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79704084/New-Zealand-rates-f...
chadgeidel 10y ago
The Internet connectivity issue was the big deal-breaker for me. Australian bloggers have been complaining about it since the beginning of the WWW. Apparently there's one provider and they don't care about anything beyond "email and casual browsing". I've heard that Australia and New Zealand share the same ISP and the same policies. This is going to be a huge hinderance for any tech enterprise. I'm glad to see @bspn (sibling comment here) say that the Internet quality is improving.
- jconnop 10y ago
  Uncapped gigabit fibre is now available to a significant and growing portion of our population, and in almost all circumstances you have 10+ ISPs to choose from. None of these local monopolies that America seems to suffer from. We used to be an internet backwater, lagging behind Australia and far behind Europe/USA, but in the last 10 years we've really leapt into the 21st century. Case in point: http://www.speedtest.net/result/6217789165.png http://www.speedtest.net/result/6217789165.png
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    Good to know, thanks!
  - cwilkes 10y ago
    That's to local .au servers. What is it like to the US? I think you can select a country with Speedtest.
    - sitharus 10y ago
      I normally get full speed to the US. Single connections hurt because of the latency, but the capacity is there. The main issue was the monopoly on transit, but domestic competition has helped a bit.
  - Taniwha 10y ago
    yes I have gigabit fibre (in Dunedin), uncapped - I get close to full speed to local speedtest servers - but sadly only ~100Mb offshore to the US - 'sadly' because 100Mb is plenty for almost everything .... the big issue though is latency - speed of light and router delays across the Pacific
lj3 10y ago
> We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. Surprisingly, NZ is not a good place for cycling. A guy and his wife[0] did a world cycling tour a while back and Wellington is the only place where he had serious issues with the locals[1]. [0]: http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/ http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/ [1]: https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/russ-from-path-less-pedaled-punched-in-new-zealand-road-rage-attack/ https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/russ-from-path-le...
- joshontheweb 10y ago
  I would actually be quite scared to bicycle in NZ. Especially in the rural areas. The roads are often narrow and winding without shoulders to speak of.
  - xxgreg 10y ago
    There's a steadily increasing network of multi-day off-road cycle trails being built. http://www.nzcycletrail.com/map/ http://www.nzcycletrail.com/map/ (click on Map View).
    - joshontheweb 10y ago
      I didn't know that. I'll have to check it out when I'm there next.
- craigds 10y ago
  Auckland at least is making steady progress, depending on where your commute is. I cycle an hour each way to work, and there's only about 500m total where I have to join the car lanes. Rest of the way it's bus and cycle lanes.
- megablast 10y ago
  Sure, but it is not like you couldn't get punched by some angry motorist in any country in the world. Except maybe Japan.
mistermann 10y ago
> housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, Same problem Canada has: interest rates below the rate of (real, unadjusted) inflation, and no limitations on foreign ownership of real estate (a major catalyst, at least, for a bubble).
- RowanH 10y ago
  People are immigrating faster than houses can be built which is a major factor...
  - mistermann 10y ago
    Well, in Canada for the most part they don't immigrate, they just buy their permanent residence status from Quebec, buy a house in Vancouver or Toronto, and then go back home. At best they might send their wife, kids, and elderly parents over to take advantage of our subsidized schools and hospitals (for hospitals you can just borrow a fake ID from someone with PR status, Canadian culture is extremely trusting so we don't have any safeguards in place for abuse of any of our social services).
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Interest rates here are way above inflation. according to the below reserve bank site inflation is 1.3% (stated in text, looks higher in that graph at closer to 2%) and the cash rate is 1.75%. This translates into interest on a mortgage being somewhere between 4.7% - 6% depending on fixed term duration etc. Mortgages here always have very short terms with a maximum of about 5 years. http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-inflation http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-infl... http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/official-cash-rate-decisions http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/official-cash-rate-d... https://www.asb.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/interest-rates-fees.html https://www.asb.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/interest-rates-fe...
  - vorg 10y ago
    The parent commenter said "(real, unadjusted) inflation". The inflation rate published by the Reserve Bank is calculated for everyday items as used by some demographic, but excludes the rising price of assets such as houses themselves, or the health costs of the aged demographic. If you treat the rental and purchase price of houses to be part of the real inflation rate (because they are compulsory costs for people living in Auckland) and appropriately weight them in the basket of items considered, then the real year-on-year inflation rate is far higher than the Reserve Bank's interest rate, causing even more locals to borrow money for more houses.
ravenstine 10y ago
That sums up my experience pretty accurately. Granted, I lived there almost 10 years ago, so I don't have an accurate picture of what it's like now. I also find it interesting that you say that obesity is a problem there, because I never got that sense during my time in Wellington. The quality of food is incredible, like you say, but people take in a lot of sugar and alcohol. I could see diabetes being a problem, but people were generally thin. Then again, I come from LA where it's not uncommon to see morbidly obese people putting around in electric wheelchairs, so my definition of obesity might be different. I have a buddy who works in IT and lives in Dunedin. Don't really have any other details, but I'd suspect that there are opportunities outside of the two big cities, though they are probably in the few. He seems to enjoy it. Health care was a mixed bag. If I remember correctly, it's pretty socialized. You can see a doctor right away with little or no charge, which is almost unheard of in metropolitan U.S. unless you want to pay through the nose. I also remember spending more time with the doctor per visit, in contrast to my experience in the states where it seems like you might get about 5 good minutes with a doctor. At this point, I've realized that I diagnose myself much better than most doctors, so I just skip the whole waiting process and just buy whatever prescription drugs I need online. I wouldn't even have to go through that hassle if I still lived in NZ. The disadvantage to NZ healthcare, and dental care, is that their practices are sometimes really backwards. Especially with the latter. Dentists are far more likely to just yank out a tooth than try to save one. As an example, they almost pulled out one of my younger sister's front teeth and give her a plate. Obviously, this sucks for a teenage girl(anyone really), and it was for an infection that could have been treated without uprooting the whole tooth. My mother actually consulted our dentist in the U.S., who then called the doctor in NZ to tell him how to treat the tooth without pulling it. This was also at one of the better dentists in Wellington. Granted, this is just one person's experience, but it's in line with what seems like medical practices that seem 15+ years behind in many regards. Overall, my life in NZ was one of the highlights of my life. Despite the challenges, I had so many life changing experiences there. The landscape and hiking are unlike a lot of other places. Everyone is super friendly, smart, and easy to get along with. If you're more introverted and feel out of place where you are, you might enjoy NZ better. I know I did, as I was far more introverted in my teens. Yet that was one of the first times I'd had actual friends who genuinely enjoyed my company. I might be tainted from growing up in LA, but everyone in NZ is far less "fake". The food is great if you're willing to forego Mexican food(of which there is none comparable to the Americas).
Tiktaalik 10y ago
I've been to NZ a few times, love the country, but agree with quite a few of these downsides. I'd also tack on that the variety of transportation options are very low. Cycling and public transit infrastructure is very poor and far, far behind other first world countries. From my understanding traffic and commuting in Auckland is a complete nightmare due to the weak public transit system. It's a bit of a southern hemisphere LA. Auckland has finally recognized they have a problem and they're slowly fixing things, but they have a long way to go. They've just recently reorganized their bus system so that should help some. The housing bubble is extremely bad in NZ so that spikes the cost of living. Another con is that it feels that NZ, like many countries, is having trouble transitioning from the mindset that everyone should have a single family home, to one where denser apartment living is going to be necessary. Auckland is very sprawling endlessly as there's a reluctance to densify and change established neighbourhoods.
- RantyDave 10y ago
  Denser living is not necessary if you have good public transport. Like Auckland doesn't.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  One of the reason that NZers are so opposed to denser housing, is because the housing quality is so poor. How close to neighbours do you want to live when your walls aren't insulated and your windows are single pane?
  - HXFIVE 10y ago
    You wouldn't be allowed to build a new house today without proper insulation and double glazing.
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      Right, so the new high density housing would be completely unaffordable for most NZers, as those are both still luxuries.
zacmps 10y ago
New Zealand is currently running gigabit fibre to 85%(?) if the country, for no instillation cost. In a couple of years NZ will have one of the highest (if not the highest) average internet speeds in the world.
- sigi45 10y ago
  Local internet speed. My home network hsa gigabit for 10 years now ;P
EdwardDiego 10y ago
> outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations) Christchurch has a fair few also, and it's closer to the "LOTR scenery". > but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there Obesity directly correlates to low socio-economic status here.
RantyDave 10y ago
Our Internet is great. We're mostly fibre now and the cheapest plans are 20 up and 100 down.
- TheAlchemist 10y ago
  And how cheap are the cheapest plans ? Also is an unlimited connection ? My understanding was that it costs ~100NZD to get a decent connection and I was very surprised to notice than in most hotels / airbnbs it was one of the first things advertised - free WiFi. With our French mobiles, which costs 20e/month, you have unlimited data while in France and 5Go per stay, up to 35 days in a year in many countries (all Europe, US, New Zealand etc).
  - RantyDave 10y ago
    NZD75 for 80GB fibre, NZD95 for unlimited.
  - jordanthoms 10y ago
    Mobile Data is still relatively expensive here, but you can get a unlimited 100mbit down/20mbit up fiber connection for ~80/month, and unlimited 1000mbit down/ 500mbit up connection for $130/month. General browsing is often still a little slower than in the US though, because of the ~200ms latency to the US where most sites are hosted. International bandwidth is pretty good now though - I usually get 200mbit downloads from US servers.
milesrout 10y ago
>- housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage... Housing prices aren't that high outside of Auckland. Auckland housing prices are high for all the reasons you can think of: no capital gains tax, tax incentives to own property, no restrictions on foreign ownership (not even a register of foreign ownership!), very liberal immigration laws, and lots of NIMBYism about increasing housing density. Almost all immigrants go to Auckland and stay in Auckland, because they see it as where most of the jobs are (and that's true, but only because of what I just said: it's a self-fulfilling prophecy). >- housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe) Older houses are definitely poor. Newer houses certainly aren't. New Zealand houses are built in a different style to those in the UK, or Europe, or the US: they're open-plan, they're built using timber framing, etc. Until a couple of decades ago, double-glazed windows and full insulation weren't mandatory. >- prices are generally quite high They are and they aren't. They probably seem higher than they really are because of the exchange rates. A lot of retailers sell imported stuff for way more than they should, because exchange rate has moved in our favour compared to the US in recent years but they haven't adjusted their prices. Steam games are ridiculously cheap compared to games from a retailer for example. >- internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back Um, no, really it does not. Internet connectivity in NZ is excellent. We have fibre-to-the-door everywhere, or at least will do when the rollout finishes in two years. >- outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations) There are probably more IT jobs in Christchurch than Wellington, honestly. New Zealand is a small country, there aren't going to be a lot of jobs when you discount the three biggest cities, obviously. >- food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. This is going to be controversial, but I'm going to say it anyway. Obesity is much less a problem if you are white and wealthy. Obesity is a problem in New Zealand if you look at the aggregate statistics for everyone, but that problem is concentrated very highly in poor communities, and mainly poor Maori and Pacific communities. I think that contrasts rather from the US. When I went to the US I noticed that everyone seemed huge. Average-looking people for the population would be considered rather chunky in NZ, and the fat people were enormous. Of course there were people that would be considered normal/healthy in NZ, but they were much less common. But yes, obesity is a problem, from a government/health-services/etc. perspective. But there isn't some magical chemical in the air that makes everyone fat, and if you are in IT your kids will likely go to a school full of other upper-middle-class kids (which unfortunately translates to the demographics being rather a lot.. lighter), and obesity will be low there. There is a big push from Government, as they are rebuilding Christchurch, to encourage walking and biking in the city over driving. For environmental reasons, for shop foot traffic reasons, for health reasons, etc.
contingencies 10y ago
Got family there and citizenship. Looked at land in the north island a few years ago. Didn't buy due to isolation. No plans to try again.

bspn 10y ago

I too am considering a move to NZ for family reasons, and visited Auckland last month. It truly is a spectacular city framed by an amazing harbor, but it's not without some faults. My thoughts on the cons you raise based on conversations I had with a few locals: > housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage.. Yes, it really is crazy particularly when you look at prices relative to salaries. As I understand it, the primary driver is everyone wants to live in Auckland as that's where most of the higher paying jobs are located which is driving up prices. Also, given the city is on an isthmus, the main space is really North and South of the city which increases commute times on already clogged highways. > housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe) This is slowly changing as proper insulation becomes a requirement, but compared to Europe and US houses the quality is incredibly poor. > prices are generally quite high For consumer goods, absolutely. Also dining out seemed expensive, but supermarket costs seemed pretty reasonable given the quality of the food. >internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back I was pleasantly surprised by this. I was regularly getting 50-100 down where I stayed, and it appears the government has made ultra-fast broadband a national priority so it should hopefully continue to improve over the next decade. One thing people warned me though is don't expect anything to happen quickly in NZ. >outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city. >food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. I believe this is largely driven by income inequality, much like here in the US. While the food really is phenomenal quality, families at the lower end of the socio-economic ladder are often priced out of the market and default to unhealthy options as a matter of necessity. Also, it was explained to me that a lot of Maori and Polynesian recipes are very fatty which is why they tend to be over-represented in obesity statistics. Overall my impression after visiting is that it's a great country, but it's not perfect. Prices are higher (due to it's isolation) and salaries are lower, but people tend to worry less about materialistic things and "getting ahead". There seems to be more of a relaxed mood to everything and as my wife contemplate where we want to raise our kids that is hugely appealing.

jly 10y ago
My wife is an expat kiwi and we visit NZ every year since most of her family lives there still. We have also been contemplating a move back from the US, but housing prices (especially Auckland, but everywhere that isn't rural farmland is an issue) and lower salaries are the only thing preventing us, still. Auckland is an amazing city but it's so incredibly congested and expensive that unless you are wealthy or in the housing market already, it's very difficult to make a go there. > Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city. I was last in Chch a couples years ago, so it may be changing, but my impression was not great. My wife lived there during the earthquake and their recovery has been slow. I think it will improve, especially with increased investment, but it's probably years away from being anywhere like Auckland or Wellington again. Even 2-3 years ago the downtown area was essentially a ghost town from what I remember, and that's still several years post-earthquake.
- EdwardDiego 10y ago
  Yeah, the rebuild is very slow, which frustrates the locals no end, but it's happening. CBD (aka "downtown") area aside, we've never stopped being like Auckland or Wellington - we have overpriced houses and congested motorways too!
  - dvtv75 10y ago
    My understanding was also that Christchurch is the most dangerous city in the country, but I've no figures to back that up. My ex lives up there, and when I stayed with her family they had me lock the car door when we were driving through the central city, something that I found very odd, and not at all reassuring.
    - mkl 10y ago
      I live in Christchurch and that's news to me. The central city is best avoided for other reasons: the 2010-2011 earthquakes disproportionately affected the old buildings there and the rebuild means it's a constantly shifting maze of closed roads and detours. This is now hardly noticeable in most of the rest of the city. I found an article [1] about it which contradicts your understanding of the crime here. Auckland is much worse as a city overall, but Cathedral Square in Christchurch is dangerous compared to the rest of the country. I can't find a good comparison of actual crime rates between countries, but did find articles saying the perception of crime risk is way off here compared to reality. 1. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79704084/New-Zealand-rates-for-assaults-sexual-assaults-and-robberies-in-2015-mapped http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79704084/New-Zealand-rates-f...

chadgeidel 10y ago

The Internet connectivity issue was the big deal-breaker for me. Australian bloggers have been complaining about it since the beginning of the WWW. Apparently there's one provider and they don't care about anything beyond "email and casual browsing". I've heard that Australia and New Zealand share the same ISP and the same policies. This is going to be a huge hinderance for any tech enterprise. I'm glad to see @bspn (sibling comment here) say that the Internet quality is improving.

jconnop 10y ago
Uncapped gigabit fibre is now available to a significant and growing portion of our population, and in almost all circumstances you have 10+ ISPs to choose from. None of these local monopolies that America seems to suffer from. We used to be an internet backwater, lagging behind Australia and far behind Europe/USA, but in the last 10 years we've really leapt into the 21st century. Case in point: http://www.speedtest.net/result/6217789165.png http://www.speedtest.net/result/6217789165.png
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  Good to know, thanks!
- cwilkes 10y ago
  That's to local .au servers. What is it like to the US? I think you can select a country with Speedtest.
  - sitharus 10y ago
    I normally get full speed to the US. Single connections hurt because of the latency, but the capacity is there. The main issue was the monopoly on transit, but domestic competition has helped a bit.
- Taniwha 10y ago
  yes I have gigabit fibre (in Dunedin), uncapped - I get close to full speed to local speedtest servers - but sadly only ~100Mb offshore to the US - 'sadly' because 100Mb is plenty for almost everything .... the big issue though is latency - speed of light and router delays across the Pacific

lj3 10y ago

> We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. Surprisingly, NZ is not a good place for cycling. A guy and his wife[0] did a world cycling tour a while back and Wellington is the only place where he had serious issues with the locals[1]. [0]: http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/ http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/ [1]: https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/russ-from-path-less-pedaled-punched-in-new-zealand-road-rage-attack/ https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/russ-from-path-le...

joshontheweb 10y ago
I would actually be quite scared to bicycle in NZ. Especially in the rural areas. The roads are often narrow and winding without shoulders to speak of.
- xxgreg 10y ago
  There's a steadily increasing network of multi-day off-road cycle trails being built. http://www.nzcycletrail.com/map/ http://www.nzcycletrail.com/map/ (click on Map View).
  - joshontheweb 10y ago
    I didn't know that. I'll have to check it out when I'm there next.
craigds 10y ago
Auckland at least is making steady progress, depending on where your commute is. I cycle an hour each way to work, and there's only about 500m total where I have to join the car lanes. Rest of the way it's bus and cycle lanes.
megablast 10y ago
Sure, but it is not like you couldn't get punched by some angry motorist in any country in the world. Except maybe Japan.

mistermann 10y ago

> housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, Same problem Canada has: interest rates below the rate of (real, unadjusted) inflation, and no limitations on foreign ownership of real estate (a major catalyst, at least, for a bubble).

RowanH 10y ago
People are immigrating faster than houses can be built which is a major factor...
- mistermann 10y ago
  Well, in Canada for the most part they don't immigrate, they just buy their permanent residence status from Quebec, buy a house in Vancouver or Toronto, and then go back home. At best they might send their wife, kids, and elderly parents over to take advantage of our subsidized schools and hospitals (for hospitals you can just borrow a fake ID from someone with PR status, Canadian culture is extremely trusting so we don't have any safeguards in place for abuse of any of our social services).
lostlogin 10y ago
Interest rates here are way above inflation. according to the below reserve bank site inflation is 1.3% (stated in text, looks higher in that graph at closer to 2%) and the cash rate is 1.75%. This translates into interest on a mortgage being somewhere between 4.7% - 6% depending on fixed term duration etc. Mortgages here always have very short terms with a maximum of about 5 years. http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-inflation http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-infl... http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/official-cash-rate-decisions http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/official-cash-rate-d... https://www.asb.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/interest-rates-fees.html https://www.asb.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/interest-rates-fe...
- vorg 10y ago
  The parent commenter said "(real, unadjusted) inflation". The inflation rate published by the Reserve Bank is calculated for everyday items as used by some demographic, but excludes the rising price of assets such as houses themselves, or the health costs of the aged demographic. If you treat the rental and purchase price of houses to be part of the real inflation rate (because they are compulsory costs for people living in Auckland) and appropriately weight them in the basket of items considered, then the real year-on-year inflation rate is far higher than the Reserve Bank's interest rate, causing even more locals to borrow money for more houses.

ravenstine 10y ago

That sums up my experience pretty accurately. Granted, I lived there almost 10 years ago, so I don't have an accurate picture of what it's like now. I also find it interesting that you say that obesity is a problem there, because I never got that sense during my time in Wellington. The quality of food is incredible, like you say, but people take in a lot of sugar and alcohol. I could see diabetes being a problem, but people were generally thin. Then again, I come from LA where it's not uncommon to see morbidly obese people putting around in electric wheelchairs, so my definition of obesity might be different. I have a buddy who works in IT and lives in Dunedin. Don't really have any other details, but I'd suspect that there are opportunities outside of the two big cities, though they are probably in the few. He seems to enjoy it. Health care was a mixed bag. If I remember correctly, it's pretty socialized. You can see a doctor right away with little or no charge, which is almost unheard of in metropolitan U.S. unless you want to pay through the nose. I also remember spending more time with the doctor per visit, in contrast to my experience in the states where it seems like you might get about 5 good minutes with a doctor. At this point, I've realized that I diagnose myself much better than most doctors, so I just skip the whole waiting process and just buy whatever prescription drugs I need online. I wouldn't even have to go through that hassle if I still lived in NZ. The disadvantage to NZ healthcare, and dental care, is that their practices are sometimes really backwards. Especially with the latter. Dentists are far more likely to just yank out a tooth than try to save one. As an example, they almost pulled out one of my younger sister's front teeth and give her a plate. Obviously, this sucks for a teenage girl(anyone really), and it was for an infection that could have been treated without uprooting the whole tooth. My mother actually consulted our dentist in the U.S., who then called the doctor in NZ to tell him how to treat the tooth without pulling it. This was also at one of the better dentists in Wellington. Granted, this is just one person's experience, but it's in line with what seems like medical practices that seem 15+ years behind in many regards. Overall, my life in NZ was one of the highlights of my life. Despite the challenges, I had so many life changing experiences there. The landscape and hiking are unlike a lot of other places. Everyone is super friendly, smart, and easy to get along with. If you're more introverted and feel out of place where you are, you might enjoy NZ better. I know I did, as I was far more introverted in my teens. Yet that was one of the first times I'd had actual friends who genuinely enjoyed my company. I might be tainted from growing up in LA, but everyone in NZ is far less "fake". The food is great if you're willing to forego Mexican food(of which there is none comparable to the Americas).

Tiktaalik 10y ago

I've been to NZ a few times, love the country, but agree with quite a few of these downsides. I'd also tack on that the variety of transportation options are very low. Cycling and public transit infrastructure is very poor and far, far behind other first world countries. From my understanding traffic and commuting in Auckland is a complete nightmare due to the weak public transit system. It's a bit of a southern hemisphere LA. Auckland has finally recognized they have a problem and they're slowly fixing things, but they have a long way to go. They've just recently reorganized their bus system so that should help some. The housing bubble is extremely bad in NZ so that spikes the cost of living. Another con is that it feels that NZ, like many countries, is having trouble transitioning from the mindset that everyone should have a single family home, to one where denser apartment living is going to be necessary. Auckland is very sprawling endlessly as there's a reluctance to densify and change established neighbourhoods.

RantyDave 10y ago
Denser living is not necessary if you have good public transport. Like Auckland doesn't.
lacampbell 10y ago
One of the reason that NZers are so opposed to denser housing, is because the housing quality is so poor. How close to neighbours do you want to live when your walls aren't insulated and your windows are single pane?
- HXFIVE 10y ago
  You wouldn't be allowed to build a new house today without proper insulation and double glazing.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    Right, so the new high density housing would be completely unaffordable for most NZers, as those are both still luxuries.

zacmps 10y ago

New Zealand is currently running gigabit fibre to 85%(?) if the country, for no instillation cost. In a couple of years NZ will have one of the highest (if not the highest) average internet speeds in the world.

sigi45 10y ago
Local internet speed. My home network hsa gigabit for 10 years now ;P

EdwardDiego 10y ago

> outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations) Christchurch has a fair few also, and it's closer to the "LOTR scenery". > but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there Obesity directly correlates to low socio-economic status here.

RantyDave 10y ago

Our Internet is great. We're mostly fibre now and the cheapest plans are 20 up and 100 down.

TheAlchemist 10y ago
And how cheap are the cheapest plans ? Also is an unlimited connection ? My understanding was that it costs ~100NZD to get a decent connection and I was very surprised to notice than in most hotels / airbnbs it was one of the first things advertised - free WiFi. With our French mobiles, which costs 20e/month, you have unlimited data while in France and 5Go per stay, up to 35 days in a year in many countries (all Europe, US, New Zealand etc).
- RantyDave 10y ago
  NZD75 for 80GB fibre, NZD95 for unlimited.
- jordanthoms 10y ago
  Mobile Data is still relatively expensive here, but you can get a unlimited 100mbit down/20mbit up fiber connection for ~80/month, and unlimited 1000mbit down/ 500mbit up connection for $130/month. General browsing is often still a little slower than in the US though, because of the ~200ms latency to the US where most sites are hosted. International bandwidth is pretty good now though - I usually get 200mbit downloads from US servers.

milesrout 10y ago

>- housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage... Housing prices aren't that high outside of Auckland. Auckland housing prices are high for all the reasons you can think of: no capital gains tax, tax incentives to own property, no restrictions on foreign ownership (not even a register of foreign ownership!), very liberal immigration laws, and lots of NIMBYism about increasing housing density. Almost all immigrants go to Auckland and stay in Auckland, because they see it as where most of the jobs are (and that's true, but only because of what I just said: it's a self-fulfilling prophecy). >- housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe) Older houses are definitely poor. Newer houses certainly aren't. New Zealand houses are built in a different style to those in the UK, or Europe, or the US: they're open-plan, they're built using timber framing, etc. Until a couple of decades ago, double-glazed windows and full insulation weren't mandatory. >- prices are generally quite high They are and they aren't. They probably seem higher than they really are because of the exchange rates. A lot of retailers sell imported stuff for way more than they should, because exchange rate has moved in our favour compared to the US in recent years but they haven't adjusted their prices. Steam games are ridiculously cheap compared to games from a retailer for example. >- internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back Um, no, really it does not. Internet connectivity in NZ is excellent. We have fibre-to-the-door everywhere, or at least will do when the rollout finishes in two years. >- outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations) There are probably more IT jobs in Christchurch than Wellington, honestly. New Zealand is a small country, there aren't going to be a lot of jobs when you discount the three biggest cities, obviously. >- food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time. This is going to be controversial, but I'm going to say it anyway. Obesity is much less a problem if you are white and wealthy. Obesity is a problem in New Zealand if you look at the aggregate statistics for everyone, but that problem is concentrated very highly in poor communities, and mainly poor Maori and Pacific communities. I think that contrasts rather from the US. When I went to the US I noticed that everyone seemed huge. Average-looking people for the population would be considered rather chunky in NZ, and the fat people were enormous. Of course there were people that would be considered normal/healthy in NZ, but they were much less common. But yes, obesity is a problem, from a government/health-services/etc. perspective. But there isn't some magical chemical in the air that makes everyone fat, and if you are in IT your kids will likely go to a school full of other upper-middle-class kids (which unfortunately translates to the demographics being rather a lot.. lighter), and obesity will be low there. There is a big push from Government, as they are rebuilding Christchurch, to encourage walking and biking in the city over driving. For environmental reasons, for shop foot traffic reasons, for health reasons, etc.

contingencies 10y ago

Got family there and citizenship. Looked at land in the north island a few years ago. Didn't buy due to isolation. No plans to try again.