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EMS used to be a go-to of mine. High prices, but good student discounts and sales. I stuck with them because they were incredibly good to their customers - they

EMS used to be a go-to of mine. High prices, but good student discounts and sales. I stuck with them because they were incredibly good to their customers - they actually cared about getting people outside and had permanent return/replace on their gear. But... then an equity firm bought them out. The discounts shrunk, the warranty vanished, and even for material defects within a year there's enormous flak when you try to get support. REI has been my go-to ever since. They're the only big outdoor supplier left that seems to actually give a damn about what they're selling.

ghaff 10y ago
Although REI also eliminated their lifetime guarantee. It's apparently really hard for this type of store to scale and stay at least somewhat aligned with their initial vision. They almost all become clothing and gear stores oriented to well-off urbanites who want to project an outdoorsy vibe. I agree that, among relatively large chains, REI has stayed closer to its roots than most.
- Chaebixi 10y ago
  > Although REI also eliminated their lifetime guarantee. IIRC, that was due to blatant abuse (e.g. people scrounging up worn-out stuff from garage sales to trade in for new). http://www.dailyemerald.com/2013/06/04/rei-changes-infamous-return-policy-limiting-lifetime-warranty-to-one-year/ http://www.dailyemerald.com/2013/06/04/rei-changes-infamous-...
  - ghaff 10y ago
    People abuse these sorts of guarantees. Always have. Always will. But it hasn't made LL Bean get rid of theirs. And, especially for many of the sort of goods REI sells, I may not use them much and if they blow a seam or something after a couple of years after they've been used a couple dozen times, I don't think I'm abusing anything by asking them to repair or replace. So, yes, I understand why they cut the guarantee but, as a longtime customer, I don't like it. (I assume they're still reasonable on a case-by-case basis.)
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      For whatever it's worth, I've never had issues. They seem to have mostly cut the 'lifetime' part of "lifetime guarantee", and still deal with defects even outside of a one year window. I suspect it's mostly a matter of REI employees having more discretion than most retail workers - they're usually quite outdoorsy and have a decent eye for what's an unreasonable failure.
      - ghaff 10y ago
        That's good to know. I've been annoyed a few times over the years when I've run into someone who was basically boasting about how he wore stuff out over a number of years and just took it into REI for new kit. Why we can't have nice things and all that. I agree that REI staff are much better than average.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  Yeah, I was sad about the loss of a lifetime guarantee, but not very surprised. It seems like a lot of people were either using them for free 'rentals' (returning gear after the season) or lifetime replacements on normal wear. I've still had good results returning anything broken or ill-fitting, at least compared to competitors like EMS. I assume there are smaller co-ops that are truer to their intentions, but I suspect economies of scale might leave them with very high prices.
throwaway91111 10y ago
LLBean doesn't have the same reputation as an outdoors/backcountry store, but there's a large overlap and they still offer the unconditional warranty REI has since abandoned.
- justinator 10y ago
  This could change: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-ll-bean-shipping-return-policy-20170209-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-ll-bean-shipping-r...

ghaff 10y ago

Although REI also eliminated their lifetime guarantee. It's apparently really hard for this type of store to scale and stay at least somewhat aligned with their initial vision. They almost all become clothing and gear stores oriented to well-off urbanites who want to project an outdoorsy vibe. I agree that, among relatively large chains, REI has stayed closer to its roots than most.

Chaebixi 10y ago
> Although REI also eliminated their lifetime guarantee. IIRC, that was due to blatant abuse (e.g. people scrounging up worn-out stuff from garage sales to trade in for new). http://www.dailyemerald.com/2013/06/04/rei-changes-infamous-return-policy-limiting-lifetime-warranty-to-one-year/ http://www.dailyemerald.com/2013/06/04/rei-changes-infamous-...
- ghaff 10y ago
  People abuse these sorts of guarantees. Always have. Always will. But it hasn't made LL Bean get rid of theirs. And, especially for many of the sort of goods REI sells, I may not use them much and if they blow a seam or something after a couple of years after they've been used a couple dozen times, I don't think I'm abusing anything by asking them to repair or replace. So, yes, I understand why they cut the guarantee but, as a longtime customer, I don't like it. (I assume they're still reasonable on a case-by-case basis.)
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    For whatever it's worth, I've never had issues. They seem to have mostly cut the 'lifetime' part of "lifetime guarantee", and still deal with defects even outside of a one year window. I suspect it's mostly a matter of REI employees having more discretion than most retail workers - they're usually quite outdoorsy and have a decent eye for what's an unreasonable failure.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      That's good to know. I've been annoyed a few times over the years when I've run into someone who was basically boasting about how he wore stuff out over a number of years and just took it into REI for new kit. Why we can't have nice things and all that. I agree that REI staff are much better than average.
Bartweiss 10y ago
Yeah, I was sad about the loss of a lifetime guarantee, but not very surprised. It seems like a lot of people were either using them for free 'rentals' (returning gear after the season) or lifetime replacements on normal wear. I've still had good results returning anything broken or ill-fitting, at least compared to competitors like EMS. I assume there are smaller co-ops that are truer to their intentions, but I suspect economies of scale might leave them with very high prices.

throwaway91111 10y ago

LLBean doesn't have the same reputation as an outdoors/backcountry store, but there's a large overlap and they still offer the unconditional warranty REI has since abandoned.

justinator 10y ago
This could change: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-ll-bean-shipping-return-policy-20170209-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-ll-bean-shipping-r...