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I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, "We can’t make paying taxes pleasant, but at least we can make it simple" was introduced, but in my vie

I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, "We can’t make paying taxes pleasant, but at least we can make it simple" was introduced, but in my view it has been supported in three different ways: 1) a simplification of the tax rules - mainly by reducing the number of exceptions and tax deduction rules, 2) filing the tax forms digitally - they started with desktop applications, and now the main focus is on a web application, and 3) pre-entering the information the DTA already has on you, so you just need to correct and add missing information instead of entering everything from scratch - and they collect a lot of data of you yearly. This improvement happened over the last 15 years, and the time required to filing tax returns was reduced from many hours (mainly to gather all the information, and writing it on a paper form) to like 30 minutes. That is, if your administration is up to date. Filing the tax forms is my yearly reminder to update my administration... BTW, that slogan is stated more succinctly in Dutch: "Leuker kunnen we het niet maken. Wel makkelijker."

tluyben2 10y ago
It is still no krentebol to work with taxes in NL. Better than most places but if you have a company it still is way too much red tape. I am very much for paying taxes and I would not even mind overpaying if it were a lot simpler. Here in Spain it is hell: I know why it is that but it makes not declaring far more attractive so we Dutch did something right. Still it is way too much hassle, especially for the small amounts.
- WJW 10y ago
  I don't know about business taxes, but at least for a "simple" application like mine (fulltime employee, homeowner with mortgage) all the relevant information about income and wealth taxes was prefilled and correct. The only thing I had to enter were my "burgerservicenummer" and one deductible post (a university course). The whole thing took about 15 minutes, including digitally signing and submitting it.
- jschulenklopper 10y ago
  My experience with business taxes is very limited (just simple revenue taxes), so that could be a lot more complicated in many cases indeed. There are still sufficient numbers of accountancy and tax firms in NL, so it can't be simple in all cases. I was referring to personal income and property taxes.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The only hard ones are VAT and pension plans. Everything else is manageable.
jschulenklopper 10y ago
Oh, and if you filed your tax forms before April 1st, you get the DTA's reply before July 1st, with the indication whether you need to pay additional taxes, or get some of it paid back. Their final decision on the yearly income taxes, so when they 'close' the case, can happen between months or years later.
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  In the UK the forms guide you through calculating how much tax you need to pay (or it's done automatically if you do it online).
pjc50 10y ago
UK equivalent: "Tax doesn't have to be taxing". The UK web filing system is also pretty good (part of the GOV.UK project), although if you're in a nice straightforward salaried job you won't have to use it at all.
- dazc 10y ago
  I find it pretty annoying actually. I have been submitting my returns digitally for several years now and I haven't noticed any improvements? For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? Some non-relevant sections can be ignored but others need you to enter 0.00. Also, if there is an error in the electronic filing, so your return is not submitted, good luck on finding what that error was because they aren't going to tell you. And, lastly, the switch from the old style site to the new could be handled better, like all in one go instead of randomly switching you between the two.
  - asdfgadsfgasfdg 10y ago
    > For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? They may be thinking that it is better to let you cache that information in your browser?
    - clort 10y ago
      Well, I have always done the paper form instead of online (why? I don't know.. but this year will likely be online) and the paper form has your name and address on it, and you only have to change something if it is different.
- toyg 10y ago
  > if you're in a nice straightforward salaried job you won't have to use it at all. Until you have the gall to (god forbid) open a side business. After that, you'll forever be forced to file a tax return, even if you go back to being a regular employee. Because fuck entrepreneurship, amirite?
anewday 10y ago
Point 1 may be a goal of the dutch Tax Administration but all those exceptions and subsidies (toeslagen) are mandated by politics so there is only so much they can do about it. In fact the dutch tax system is actually hugely complicated by the sheer amount of interdependent exceptions and subsidies. So I'm really surprised they use the Netherlands as example.
- jschulenklopper 10y ago
  Tax rules used to be even more difficult, and filing the tax forms used to be manual. So, at least in NL there's been some progress over two decades (compared to in the USA, as mentioned in the article), and filing a simple yearly tax statement is indeed reduced to 20-30 minutes. Mainly because many exceptions have been deprecated over the last decades, also reducing the operating costs of the DTA. The system of subsidies ("toeslagen") for rent, health care, child daycare and such is complicated indeed... but not really related to tax (although it is sometimes capped based on the income). It was a political coincidence/agreement that the responsibilities for paying those subsidies was put at the Dutch Tax Administration, as that agency was more used to receiving (tax) payments than paying subsidies to citizens. Culturally, handing out money didn't 'fit' the tax administration well in the beginning, but there was no other agency in NL that was deemed capable of getting it done in a short time.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jschulenklopper 10y ago
> I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, [...] was introduced, Just found out: according to their own account, it's their slogan for twenty years already. In ads it seems to be introduced in 2007.

tluyben2 10y ago

It is still no krentebol to work with taxes in NL. Better than most places but if you have a company it still is way too much red tape. I am very much for paying taxes and I would not even mind overpaying if it were a lot simpler. Here in Spain it is hell: I know why it is that but it makes not declaring far more attractive so we Dutch did something right. Still it is way too much hassle, especially for the small amounts.

WJW 10y ago
I don't know about business taxes, but at least for a "simple" application like mine (fulltime employee, homeowner with mortgage) all the relevant information about income and wealth taxes was prefilled and correct. The only thing I had to enter were my "burgerservicenummer" and one deductible post (a university course). The whole thing took about 15 minutes, including digitally signing and submitting it.
jschulenklopper 10y ago
My experience with business taxes is very limited (just simple revenue taxes), so that could be a lot more complicated in many cases indeed. There are still sufficient numbers of accountancy and tax firms in NL, so it can't be simple in all cases. I was referring to personal income and property taxes.
jacquesm 10y ago
The only hard ones are VAT and pension plans. Everything else is manageable.

jschulenklopper 10y ago

Oh, and if you filed your tax forms before April 1st, you get the DTA's reply before July 1st, with the indication whether you need to pay additional taxes, or get some of it paid back. Their final decision on the yearly income taxes, so when they 'close' the case, can happen between months or years later.

lucaspiller 10y ago
In the UK the forms guide you through calculating how much tax you need to pay (or it's done automatically if you do it online).

pjc50 10y ago

UK equivalent: "Tax doesn't have to be taxing". The UK web filing system is also pretty good (part of the GOV.UK project), although if you're in a nice straightforward salaried job you won't have to use it at all.

dazc 10y ago
I find it pretty annoying actually. I have been submitting my returns digitally for several years now and I haven't noticed any improvements? For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? Some non-relevant sections can be ignored but others need you to enter 0.00. Also, if there is an error in the electronic filing, so your return is not submitted, good luck on finding what that error was because they aren't going to tell you. And, lastly, the switch from the old style site to the new could be handled better, like all in one go instead of randomly switching you between the two.
- asdfgadsfgasfdg 10y ago
  > For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? They may be thinking that it is better to let you cache that information in your browser?
  - clort 10y ago
    Well, I have always done the paper form instead of online (why? I don't know.. but this year will likely be online) and the paper form has your name and address on it, and you only have to change something if it is different.
toyg 10y ago
> if you're in a nice straightforward salaried job you won't have to use it at all. Until you have the gall to (god forbid) open a side business. After that, you'll forever be forced to file a tax return, even if you go back to being a regular employee. Because fuck entrepreneurship, amirite?

anewday 10y ago

Point 1 may be a goal of the dutch Tax Administration but all those exceptions and subsidies (toeslagen) are mandated by politics so there is only so much they can do about it. In fact the dutch tax system is actually hugely complicated by the sheer amount of interdependent exceptions and subsidies. So I'm really surprised they use the Netherlands as example.

jschulenklopper 10y ago
Tax rules used to be even more difficult, and filing the tax forms used to be manual. So, at least in NL there's been some progress over two decades (compared to in the USA, as mentioned in the article), and filing a simple yearly tax statement is indeed reduced to 20-30 minutes. Mainly because many exceptions have been deprecated over the last decades, also reducing the operating costs of the DTA. The system of subsidies ("toeslagen") for rent, health care, child daycare and such is complicated indeed... but not really related to tax (although it is sometimes capped based on the income). It was a political coincidence/agreement that the responsibilities for paying those subsidies was put at the Dutch Tax Administration, as that agency was more used to receiving (tax) payments than paying subsidies to citizens. Culturally, handing out money didn't 'fit' the tax administration well in the beginning, but there was no other agency in NL that was deemed capable of getting it done in a short time.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jschulenklopper 10y ago

> I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, [...] was introduced, Just found out: according to their own account, it's their slogan for twenty years already. In ads it seems to be introduced in 2007.