4 ms·

Yeah people go on and on about how much 'amazing' stuff Google does or Microsoft does as if they just have a knack for picking the right people. No, they have

Yeah people go on and on about how much 'amazing' stuff Google does or Microsoft does as if they just have a knack for picking the right people. No, they have some good people and a huge amount of money gained from monopolies, which are by definition not legal.

chrisseaton 10y ago
> monopolies, which are by definition not legal By exactly what definition? Monopolies are not illegal. Abusing a monopoly is illegal in some cases.
- milesrout 10y ago
  If it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly. Microsoft still has an illegal monopoly with Windows. There's no political will to deal with it, but it absolutely exists and has for years.
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    > If it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly. Where are you getting this information from? "The courts have interpreted this to mean that monopoly is not unlawful per se, but only if acquired through prohibited conduct." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Monopoly_and_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Mo..., which cites a 1945 court case United States v. Aluminum Corp. of America.
    - milesrout 10y ago
      Why would American law be relevant?
      - chrisseaton 10y ago
        You've mentioned two companies - Microsoft and Google. Both of these are American companies so they're subject to US competition law in at least their home markets. No other country would have the power to do anything fundamental about their monopoly such as breaking them up. They could only fine them, require them to support competitors, or lesser things like that. If you want to talk about some other countries, a monopoly is also not illegal in the UK. Again, only abusing the monopoly may be considered illegal. https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/overview https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/overview If you were thinking of a different country's law (which would be odd since you mentioned two US companies) can you name one where a monopoly is by definition illegal?
        milesrout 10y ago
        >You've mentioned two companies - Microsoft and Google. Both of these are American companies so they're subject to US competition law in at least their home markets. No other country would have the power to do anything fundamental about their monopoly such as breaking them up. That's quite untrue. Any sovereign country can impose whatever restrictions they like on any company they like. That company can withdraw from that country, but in doing so they are giving up on all the income they could get from that country. They might not be able to force them to break up, but they can certainly force them to either break up or fuck off. >If you want to talk about some other countries, a monopoly is also not illegal in the UK. Again, only abusing the monopoly may be considered illegal. You don't seem to understand. By definition, if it isn't abusive, it isn't a monopoly.
        chrisseaton 10y ago
        > You don't seem to understand. By definition, if it isn't abusive, it isn't a monopoly. That's not what you said originally. You said 'if it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly' I've shown that it at least is not true in the US and even referred you to a precedent which says that you can have a monopoly that is legal - 'monopoly is not unlawful per se'. So if you weren't referring to the US, which country do you think your claim is true in?
        milesrout 10y ago
        I'm going to end this conversation before you get too confused
        dang 10y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop.
        rurban 10y ago
        Could you please undo that? I don't know this person, but all his arguments are worth discussing, his points are valid, and don't see any other site violation, than the monopoly discussion being of course only a side discussion of Google/Microsoft. I also don't see any request to stop. His last post on this was 19 hrs ago, you de-attached it 15 hrs ago, and then banned him 15 hrs ago. Rob Taylor by himself explained how important it is to let discussions happen at PARC. They trained it. RIP
dang 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112384 and marked it off-topic.

chrisseaton 10y ago

> monopolies, which are by definition not legal By exactly what definition? Monopolies are not illegal. Abusing a monopoly is illegal in some cases.

milesrout 10y ago
If it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly. Microsoft still has an illegal monopoly with Windows. There's no political will to deal with it, but it absolutely exists and has for years.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  > If it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly. Where are you getting this information from? "The courts have interpreted this to mean that monopoly is not unlawful per se, but only if acquired through prohibited conduct." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Monopoly_and_power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Mo..., which cites a 1945 court case United States v. Aluminum Corp. of America.
  - milesrout 10y ago
    Why would American law be relevant?
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      You've mentioned two companies - Microsoft and Google. Both of these are American companies so they're subject to US competition law in at least their home markets. No other country would have the power to do anything fundamental about their monopoly such as breaking them up. They could only fine them, require them to support competitors, or lesser things like that. If you want to talk about some other countries, a monopoly is also not illegal in the UK. Again, only abusing the monopoly may be considered illegal. https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/overview https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/overview If you were thinking of a different country's law (which would be odd since you mentioned two US companies) can you name one where a monopoly is by definition illegal?
      - milesrout 10y ago
        >You've mentioned two companies - Microsoft and Google. Both of these are American companies so they're subject to US competition law in at least their home markets. No other country would have the power to do anything fundamental about their monopoly such as breaking them up. That's quite untrue. Any sovereign country can impose whatever restrictions they like on any company they like. That company can withdraw from that country, but in doing so they are giving up on all the income they could get from that country. They might not be able to force them to break up, but they can certainly force them to either break up or fuck off. >If you want to talk about some other countries, a monopoly is also not illegal in the UK. Again, only abusing the monopoly may be considered illegal. You don't seem to understand. By definition, if it isn't abusive, it isn't a monopoly.
        chrisseaton 10y ago
        > You don't seem to understand. By definition, if it isn't abusive, it isn't a monopoly. That's not what you said originally. You said 'if it's not illegal, it's not a monopoly' I've shown that it at least is not true in the US and even referred you to a precedent which says that you can have a monopoly that is legal - 'monopoly is not unlawful per se'. So if you weren't referring to the US, which country do you think your claim is true in?
        milesrout 10y ago
        I'm going to end this conversation before you get too confused
        dang 10y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop.
        rurban 10y ago
        Could you please undo that? I don't know this person, but all his arguments are worth discussing, his points are valid, and don't see any other site violation, than the monopoly discussion being of course only a side discussion of Google/Microsoft. I also don't see any request to stop. His last post on this was 19 hrs ago, you de-attached it 15 hrs ago, and then banned him 15 hrs ago. Rob Taylor by himself explained how important it is to let discussions happen at PARC. They trained it. RIP

dang 10y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14112384 and marked it off-topic.