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> but the only barometer that should have some weight is the ease or difficulty that Amazon has in attracting and retaining top talent They have terrible reten

> but the only barometer that should have some weight is the ease or difficulty that Amazon has in attracting and retaining top talent They have terrible retention. One of the worst and in many years the absolute worst. A few years back workers were passing out from working in 100 degree temps. They were disciplined for performance and instead of installing air conditioning, they lined up ambulances and paramedics to take falling bodies to the hospital. https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-very-hot-warehouse/ https://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/inside-amazons-ver... This is grotesque.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
To be clear their retention is only bad in the fulfillment centers. Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply. For their core engineering, BD etc... teams in Seattle, retention is great.
- devopsproject 9y ago
  If you are going to make those claims, please provide a source. This is pretty good rant from the technical\engineering side: https://plus.google.com/+RipRowan/posts/eVeouesvaVX https://plus.google.com/+RipRowan/posts/eVeouesvaVX There is no need to fetishize amazon and if amazon is your model I feel sorry for your employees.
  - ronlaflange 9y ago
    Not sure how relevant this rant is; the last time Steve Yegge worked at Amazon was in mid-2005. For reference, this was even before AWS launched publicly.
    - devopsproject 9y ago
      2015 - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-...
- krapp 9y ago
  >Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply. Low skill, yes, low pay, God yes, seasonal - not usually. At least where I am, they aggressively hire for full time positions, and clearly intend for non-temporary employees to consider it as a career. Retention is poor because of the environment and the workload. And theft. Apparently there's a lot of theft. But that's bound to happen when you surround people with expensive merchandise, work them like dogs and refuse to pay them a decent wage.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

To be clear their retention is only bad in the fulfillment centers. Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply. For their core engineering, BD etc... teams in Seattle, retention is great.

devopsproject 9y ago
If you are going to make those claims, please provide a source. This is pretty good rant from the technical\engineering side: https://plus.google.com/+RipRowan/posts/eVeouesvaVX https://plus.google.com/+RipRowan/posts/eVeouesvaVX There is no need to fetishize amazon and if amazon is your model I feel sorry for your employees.
- ronlaflange 9y ago
  Not sure how relevant this rant is; the last time Steve Yegge worked at Amazon was in mid-2005. For reference, this was even before AWS launched publicly.
  - devopsproject 9y ago
    2015 - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-...
krapp 9y ago
>Those are generally low skill, low pay, seasonal employees meant for short term stints - of which there is a near infinite supply. Low skill, yes, low pay, God yes, seasonal - not usually. At least where I am, they aggressively hire for full time positions, and clearly intend for non-temporary employees to consider it as a career. Retention is poor because of the environment and the workload. And theft. Apparently there's a lot of theft. But that's bound to happen when you surround people with expensive merchandise, work them like dogs and refuse to pay them a decent wage.