10 ms·

People esp. promoting Marxism, do not even footnote mention the human cost of Soviet gulags or Mao's cultural revolution. If Marxism is so awesome, why did the

by sremani 10y ago

People esp. promoting Marxism, do not even footnote mention the human cost of Soviet gulags or Mao's cultural revolution. If Marxism is so awesome, why did the Chinese reform in 1979, did any one care to understand? What was the state of China and Russia in these periods? Capitalism has flaws and number of them, no doubt, but best of options available on table. The only way out is improving Capitalism, not subverting it, but if that is your choice, many nations tried that and have failed miserably. If you love Price Controls, go ask Indian farmers the havoc it creates If you want fixed exchange rates, go look at Venezuela and black markets If you want subsidies, look at Venezuela or any n number of nations, where smuggling is rampant The alternative paths are taken the better ones ended up as dead-ends and the worse ones, swallowed people like quagmires.

xj9 10y ago
you are talking about some specific brands of communist thought. Mao had some ideas. Lenin had others. lots of other groups have tried different ideas to varying degrees of success. there are a lot of schools of thought who strongly disagree on each-other's methods. one particular disagreement is on the utility and viability of a "vanguard party" or "dictatorship of the proletariat". history has shown us that it doesn't work. capitalism is useful. collective action is powerful. individual empowerment is important. Capitalism v. Communism is a good dialectic, but framing it as a war is stupid. it isn't about winning for one side or the other, its about building an economic system that maximizes our happiness and potential in an efficient way.
- sremani 10y ago
  >>varying degrees of success. Examples and references on this one. This cop out is amazing from Marxist apologists, you show 40 countries with 40 flavors of Communism for a span of 40 years basically screwing their societies, the answer always seems to be "that is not real communism". Not buying it! If you have goods to sell, show them!
  - humble_dev 10y ago
    Well I am big believer in so-called techno communism. The problem with communism in past was that people had to do dirty work, if we automate every possible job and create basic income we will end-up with some sort of communism. It wasn't possible to implement true communism in the past and still I think we are not ready to implement it just yet, but 50 100 or maybe 200 years from now communism will be superior, another problem with past implementation of communism was lack of democracy. We need true democratic communism based on technology and freedom.
  - xj9 10y ago
    i'm not saying "that is not real communism", i'm saying they are all different schools of thought, which should be judged independently. Marxism Leninism Marxism–Leninism Trotskyism Maoism Juche Anarchist communism Socialism with Chinese characteristics Luxemburgism Titoism Stalinism Castroism Guevarism Hoxhaism Khrushchevism Indian Communism Rankovićism Left communism Council communism Religious communism Christian communism Eurocommunism World communism Stateless communism National communism Primitive communism Scientific communism Ho Chi Minh Thought Scientific Outlook on Development Black Anarchism Agorist Anarchism Capitalist Anarchism Christian Anarchism Collectivist Anarchism Communist Anarchism Egoist Anarchism Existentialist Anarchism Feminist Anarchism Green Anarchism Individualist Anarchism Infoanarchism Anarchism Insurrectionary Anarchism Leftist Anarchism Magonist Anarchism Market Anarchism Mutualist Anarchism Nationalist Anarchism Naturist Anarchism Pacifist Anarchism Philosophical Anarchism Platformist Anarchism Post-anarchist Anarchism Postcolonial Anarchism Post-left Anarchism Primitivist Anarchism Queer Anarchism Social Anarchism Syndicalist Anarchism Synthesist Anarchism Voluntaryism Anarchism without adjectives https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-with-no-bosses.html https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... https://libcom.org/thought/anarcho-syndicalism-an-introduction https://libcom.org/thought/anarcho-syndicalism-an-introducti...
dang 10y ago
Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. Such discussions are predictable, therefore uninteresting, therefore off-topic on HN. If you want to debate capitalism vs. communism in the glory of full generality, this is not the website you're looking for. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14107884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14107884 and marked it off-topic.
- sremani 10y ago
  >>If you want to debate capitalism vs. communism in the glory of full generality, this is not the website you're looking for. I respectfully urge you to confine the justification for your action to the comment itself, rather than making it personal.

by sremani 10y ago

xj9 10y ago

you are talking about some specific brands of communist thought. Mao had some ideas. Lenin had others. lots of other groups have tried different ideas to varying degrees of success. there are a lot of schools of thought who strongly disagree on each-other's methods. one particular disagreement is on the utility and viability of a "vanguard party" or "dictatorship of the proletariat". history has shown us that it doesn't work. capitalism is useful. collective action is powerful. individual empowerment is important. Capitalism v. Communism is a good dialectic, but framing it as a war is stupid. it isn't about winning for one side or the other, its about building an economic system that maximizes our happiness and potential in an efficient way.

sremani 10y ago
>>varying degrees of success. Examples and references on this one. This cop out is amazing from Marxist apologists, you show 40 countries with 40 flavors of Communism for a span of 40 years basically screwing their societies, the answer always seems to be "that is not real communism". Not buying it! If you have goods to sell, show them!
- humble_dev 10y ago
  Well I am big believer in so-called techno communism. The problem with communism in past was that people had to do dirty work, if we automate every possible job and create basic income we will end-up with some sort of communism. It wasn't possible to implement true communism in the past and still I think we are not ready to implement it just yet, but 50 100 or maybe 200 years from now communism will be superior, another problem with past implementation of communism was lack of democracy. We need true democratic communism based on technology and freedom.
- xj9 10y ago
  i'm not saying "that is not real communism", i'm saying they are all different schools of thought, which should be judged independently. Marxism Leninism Marxism–Leninism Trotskyism Maoism Juche Anarchist communism Socialism with Chinese characteristics Luxemburgism Titoism Stalinism Castroism Guevarism Hoxhaism Khrushchevism Indian Communism Rankovićism Left communism Council communism Religious communism Christian communism Eurocommunism World communism Stateless communism National communism Primitive communism Scientific communism Ho Chi Minh Thought Scientific Outlook on Development Black Anarchism Agorist Anarchism Capitalist Anarchism Christian Anarchism Collectivist Anarchism Communist Anarchism Egoist Anarchism Existentialist Anarchism Feminist Anarchism Green Anarchism Individualist Anarchism Infoanarchism Anarchism Insurrectionary Anarchism Leftist Anarchism Magonist Anarchism Market Anarchism Mutualist Anarchism Nationalist Anarchism Naturist Anarchism Pacifist Anarchism Philosophical Anarchism Platformist Anarchism Post-anarchist Anarchism Postcolonial Anarchism Post-left Anarchism Primitivist Anarchism Queer Anarchism Social Anarchism Syndicalist Anarchism Synthesist Anarchism Voluntaryism Anarchism without adjectives https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-with-no-bosses.html https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... https://libcom.org/thought/anarcho-syndicalism-an-introduction https://libcom.org/thought/anarcho-syndicalism-an-introducti...

dang 10y ago

Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. Such discussions are predictable, therefore uninteresting, therefore off-topic on HN. If you want to debate capitalism vs. communism in the glory of full generality, this is not the website you're looking for. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14107884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14107884 and marked it off-topic.

sremani 10y ago
>>If you want to debate capitalism vs. communism in the glory of full generality, this is not the website you're looking for. I respectfully urge you to confine the justification for your action to the comment itself, rather than making it personal.