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I'm an atheist and don't believe in spirits, but when I came across a viewpoint similar to this a few years ago it really changed how I empathize with people.

I'm an atheist and don't believe in spirits, but when I came across a viewpoint similar to this a few years ago it really changed how I empathize with people. I really don't agree with how widely we apply the disease model when thinking of human behaviors. Some people are mentally ill, but the world we live in is more certainly ill. The expected arc of a life in the Western world is that you spend your healthy years working on other people's goals so you can spend the last few years of your life doing what you want with what resources you've amassed and what health you have remaining. We wage wars and torture, reward greed, deny each other healthcare, homes, food, our leaders are cartoon villains. If we manage to find love, it is discriminated against unless it fits into a narrow set of parameters. If we are unlucky, we are born, starve for a few years, and then die of preventable, curable disease. Happy participation in this society is not rational. As Krishnamurti said, "It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a sick society." I have been lucky in the opportunities that I have had available to me, but it's not hard for me to conceive of situations where the rational choice is to drink oneself to death. Life is unkind to many people. The ideal solution is to fix all of the world's ills, but obviously that isn't realistic, at least not in our lifetimes. We can make progress, but help will arrive too late for many. I can empathize with those who choose to say that the individual is sick, rather than the world, because the individual is easier to change. But it's simply not true in some cases. Instead of telling someone, "Something is wrong with you, let's fix it," we should often be telling them, "You're right, there's a lot wrong with your life and the world, and much of that can't be changed; let's see if we can find a way to find you some contentment despite that." To be very clear: some people are mentally ill. Individuals can be ill AND the world's can be ill. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Jhsto 10y ago
I had a case where I had a mental disorder but eventually, I found out that much of it was me being afraid of how the society will accept it. I personally thought I had a self-caused mental illness because of a psychotic episode from drug abuse. Drug abuse having a huge stigma in my country, I was afraid to seek mental health help because both my relatives and a firsthand experience with a GP were negative experiences. To me, it seemed like everyone I talked to condemned my behavior. The condemnation was so bad that the advice I received was just to avoid drugs and to not talk about the use to anyone. When I asked a GP to prescribe drugs to me which I thought would be helpful in my situation, I was basically told that as I just admitted drug abuse that would not work. Eventually, I sought mental health help (to get the drugs I sought from GP) where I was being treated from the article's perspective. I was told that instead of a mental illness, I seem to have a PTSD and the way I am having delusions is a natural behavior. I also got some drugs, not the ones I wanted, but the ones I actually needed. Either way, I finally found an authority that accepted me and my situation. Surely enough, all my symptoms disappeared within days the appointment. The experience showed me how fine line there is in mental health and how much the outside world can affect the image of yourself.
neolefty 10y ago
> The ideal solution is to fix all of the world's ills, but obviously that isn't realistic, at least not in our lifetimes. We can make progress, but help will arrive too late for many. I love this sentence, and I want to say yes to both -- we should keep working to fix all the world's problems, and not be discouraged that it will indeed take longer than our lifetimes. And in the meantime show what kindness and mercy we can to people who are caught up in the undertow of today's social reality.
benevol 10y ago
> I'm an atheist and don't believe in spirits I'm not sure what you mean by "believing in spirits". But our origin is of spiritual nature and this "materialistic" world we experience is just one (temporary) expression of it. There is more than one healer who claims that a certain percentage of "schizophrenic" people are not actually ill, but have a heightened level of sensitivity, meaning they receive information coming from "the other side" (from our "source"). Hearing voices can therefor be part of that. Some call such people "psychics". Here's an example of such a person (healer): http://www.miraclescome.com/en/the-book-summary/excerpts http://www.miraclescome.com/en/the-book-summary/excerpts
- MacsHeadroom 10y ago
  People who care a about empiricism call them psychotic. If there was something real to this "other side" it would be reliably reproducible. Yet no well formulated double blind follow up study has ever reproduced any psychic phenomena. Not to mention, I can trick a "psychic" every time with acting.
  - retreatguru 10y ago
    This book changed by view on the subject: https://www.amazon.ca/Twenty-Suggestive-Reincarnation-Revised-Enlarged/dp/0813908728 https://www.amazon.ca/Twenty-Suggestive-Reincarnation-Revise...

Jhsto 10y ago

I had a case where I had a mental disorder but eventually, I found out that much of it was me being afraid of how the society will accept it. I personally thought I had a self-caused mental illness because of a psychotic episode from drug abuse. Drug abuse having a huge stigma in my country, I was afraid to seek mental health help because both my relatives and a firsthand experience with a GP were negative experiences. To me, it seemed like everyone I talked to condemned my behavior. The condemnation was so bad that the advice I received was just to avoid drugs and to not talk about the use to anyone. When I asked a GP to prescribe drugs to me which I thought would be helpful in my situation, I was basically told that as I just admitted drug abuse that would not work. Eventually, I sought mental health help (to get the drugs I sought from GP) where I was being treated from the article's perspective. I was told that instead of a mental illness, I seem to have a PTSD and the way I am having delusions is a natural behavior. I also got some drugs, not the ones I wanted, but the ones I actually needed. Either way, I finally found an authority that accepted me and my situation. Surely enough, all my symptoms disappeared within days the appointment. The experience showed me how fine line there is in mental health and how much the outside world can affect the image of yourself.

neolefty 10y ago

> The ideal solution is to fix all of the world's ills, but obviously that isn't realistic, at least not in our lifetimes. We can make progress, but help will arrive too late for many. I love this sentence, and I want to say yes to both -- we should keep working to fix all the world's problems, and not be discouraged that it will indeed take longer than our lifetimes. And in the meantime show what kindness and mercy we can to people who are caught up in the undertow of today's social reality.

benevol 10y ago

> I'm an atheist and don't believe in spirits I'm not sure what you mean by "believing in spirits". But our origin is of spiritual nature and this "materialistic" world we experience is just one (temporary) expression of it. There is more than one healer who claims that a certain percentage of "schizophrenic" people are not actually ill, but have a heightened level of sensitivity, meaning they receive information coming from "the other side" (from our "source"). Hearing voices can therefor be part of that. Some call such people "psychics". Here's an example of such a person (healer): http://www.miraclescome.com/en/the-book-summary/excerpts http://www.miraclescome.com/en/the-book-summary/excerpts

MacsHeadroom 10y ago
People who care a about empiricism call them psychotic. If there was something real to this "other side" it would be reliably reproducible. Yet no well formulated double blind follow up study has ever reproduced any psychic phenomena. Not to mention, I can trick a "psychic" every time with acting.
- retreatguru 10y ago
  This book changed by view on the subject: https://www.amazon.ca/Twenty-Suggestive-Reincarnation-Revised-Enlarged/dp/0813908728 https://www.amazon.ca/Twenty-Suggestive-Reincarnation-Revise...