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Lyft said “We are in a competitive industry. However, if true, these allegations are very concerning.” Notice the careful non-statement by Lyft. It's hard to b

Lyft said “We are in a competitive industry. However, if true, these allegations are very concerning.” Notice the careful non-statement by Lyft. It's hard to believe Lyft isn't doing exactly the same thing. It's not questionable behavior to track what your competitor is doing. That's the first step toward beating them. And yes, Uber is trying to beat Lyft, just like Lyft is trying to beat Uber. That happy balance is a good thing for consumers. It's pretty strange that I have to second-guess whether to post this comment since it could be interpreted as a defense of Uber. But the PR spin is getting to be a feeding frenzy. Is all tracking now unethical? Under what circumstances should you be allowed to track other people? Google knows more about you than your significant other. Should they be allowed to do this? Is this ethically questionable? What is the categorical difference between Google and Uber? These are questions which have no clear and easy answer, but it's painted as if it's so clear-cut.

rodorgas 10y ago
Agree. Google not only tracked Bing but also set up fake results to catch them copying. There's an app that compares the price from Uber, Lyft and others services. These two examples are using data from computer systems in a way companies didn't intend. Have you guys ever thought that search engines scraping your site is opt-out? We are just repelling this because Uber has a bad reputation.
- stordoff 10y ago
  > Google not only tracked Bing but also set up fake results to catch them copying. I'm not sure I see the similarity. Google never sent false queries to Bing - Google sent synthetic queries to their own infrastructure, and observed how Microsoft's software (search engine, toolbar etc.) responded to that. There's That seems closer to if Uber had just hired a team of people to use Lyft and record their observations (which is still problematic, as one of the results is tracking people without their knowledge, but for different reasons than falsifying queries to scrape this data).
eridius 10y ago
> It's hard to believe Lyft isn't doing exactly the same thing. No, it's actually really easy to believe that Lyft isn't tricking Uber's computer systems into giving Lyft real-time info on Uber's drivers and fare prices. Please stop trying to make excuses for Uber's shitty behavior.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  You aren't allowed to comment like this here, and you should definitely know this. You have to engage civilly and substantively with points you disagree with, not make a lowbrow "Uber is shitty and so are you" comment.
  - jsjohnst 10y ago
    Respectfully, I disagree. He's not saying anything like what you claimed he said.
    - sillysaurus3 10y ago
      Yep, I agree with your disagreement. Oh well. Apologies to eridius. I just wish we could maybe turn down the heated discourse from the maximum setting, since people are quick to escalate. But my original comment certainly didn't help in that regard. So, now that I've chosen to be in the hot-seat regarding Uber, who's up for a debate? Why is this particular behavior unethical? If it's true they accessed Lyft's API, under what circumstances is it ok to do this as a competitor? I promise I have an open mind.
      - jsjohnst 10y ago
        Usage of the API is bound by the terms of service. I've not read Lyft's ToS in detail, but I'm sure what Uber is doing is in violation of said terms. That's certainly unethical, potentially illegal. (PS, thanks for the late level headedness!)
        sillysaurus3 10y ago
TorKlingberg 10y ago
> Notice the careful non-statement by Lyft. They just don't want to be seen making a big deal out of something that later turns out to be nothing.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  Or they're being smart with PR: they issue a statement saying this is concerning, but not too strongly worded, and let the general coverage and zeitgeist say all the things they'd like to say, but without anyone being able to pin those statements on them later.

rodorgas 10y ago

Agree. Google not only tracked Bing but also set up fake results to catch them copying. There's an app that compares the price from Uber, Lyft and others services. These two examples are using data from computer systems in a way companies didn't intend. Have you guys ever thought that search engines scraping your site is opt-out? We are just repelling this because Uber has a bad reputation.

stordoff 10y ago
> Google not only tracked Bing but also set up fake results to catch them copying. I'm not sure I see the similarity. Google never sent false queries to Bing - Google sent synthetic queries to their own infrastructure, and observed how Microsoft's software (search engine, toolbar etc.) responded to that. There's That seems closer to if Uber had just hired a team of people to use Lyft and record their observations (which is still problematic, as one of the results is tracking people without their knowledge, but for different reasons than falsifying queries to scrape this data).

eridius 10y ago

> It's hard to believe Lyft isn't doing exactly the same thing. No, it's actually really easy to believe that Lyft isn't tricking Uber's computer systems into giving Lyft real-time info on Uber's drivers and fare prices. Please stop trying to make excuses for Uber's shitty behavior.

sillysaurus3 10y ago
You aren't allowed to comment like this here, and you should definitely know this. You have to engage civilly and substantively with points you disagree with, not make a lowbrow "Uber is shitty and so are you" comment.
- jsjohnst 10y ago
  Respectfully, I disagree. He's not saying anything like what you claimed he said.
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    Yep, I agree with your disagreement. Oh well. Apologies to eridius. I just wish we could maybe turn down the heated discourse from the maximum setting, since people are quick to escalate. But my original comment certainly didn't help in that regard. So, now that I've chosen to be in the hot-seat regarding Uber, who's up for a debate? Why is this particular behavior unethical? If it's true they accessed Lyft's API, under what circumstances is it ok to do this as a competitor? I promise I have an open mind.
    - jsjohnst 10y ago
      Usage of the API is bound by the terms of service. I've not read Lyft's ToS in detail, but I'm sure what Uber is doing is in violation of said terms. That's certainly unethical, potentially illegal. (PS, thanks for the late level headedness!)
      - sillysaurus3 10y ago

TorKlingberg 10y ago

> Notice the careful non-statement by Lyft. They just don't want to be seen making a big deal out of something that later turns out to be nothing.

ubernostrum 10y ago
Or they're being smart with PR: they issue a statement saying this is concerning, but not too strongly worded, and let the general coverage and zeitgeist say all the things they'd like to say, but without anyone being able to pin those statements on them later.