4 ms·

The horror stories don't resemble anything that I experienced during my five years at Amazon. I think they're largely propagated by NYT and friends because Amaz

The horror stories don't resemble anything that I experienced during my five years at Amazon. I think they're largely propagated by NYT and friends because Amazon out-competed them in their own space. Amazon is the best run company I ever worked for. By far.

Terr_ 10y ago
Any particular litmus-test items to distinguish good Amazon teams from bad ones?
- vaidhy 10y ago
  Ask them for the ticket count metrics - number of tickets, severity and age of open ones. Overly ambitious managers tend to build unstable systems that will break under load. I am going through my second stint at Amazon and I enjoy working there. However, it is not the best place for everyone.
  - jrauser 10y ago
    This is the correct answer. My advice for amazon SDEs is: either your manager puts operational excellence as their top priority or you need to find a new manager.
  - Zombieball 10y ago
    Just to elaborate On the priority bit. Page count during on-call rotations is probably a huge metric to watch.
  - donavanm 10y ago
    That's one (important) aspect. When looking at a team or individual I check wiki contributions, design documents, commits, code review feedback provided to others, ticket queue depth/volume, "cm" volume, customer forums, broadcast sessions, and org role/level/tenure blend. Also for teams get a referral or just send a "cold" email to have coffee with an IC on the team. I'd hazard that most of those data sources work for most of the teams at Amazon.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Also probably depends on the department you're in. Warehouse packaging employees seems to be under lots of pressure.
- msg 10y ago
  I would ask about how long people have worked on that team, how many have come on and left in the last year, and how many headcount they are getting in OP1. This will tell you a lot about whether this team is growing and successful, stagnant, or on fire. Getting paged a lot is a hallmark of teams you don't want to be on, but in the last couple of years, Amazon has instituted policies that make it easier to internally transfer (no strict time limit on how long you have to stay with a team). Getting paged is sort of a proxy for the real thing you want to know: how many people are voting with their feet.
  - donavanm 10y ago
    Check the policy again. As of 2017-04-01 (for reals) there are effectively no restrictions on internal transfers. Including "performance" restrictions.
- Zombieball 10y ago
  After the NYT article restrictions around transferring teams were relaxed significantly: Previously I believe you had to stay on a team for a year before you could switch. Now it's something like a month. If you find yourself on a bad team, pop open jobfinder and don't be afraid to abandon ship! Don't needlessly suffer.
- mter 10y ago
  Find out how many senior engineers are on that team and are participating in the oncall rotation that you will be a part of. Or, find out how many SDE IIs with 3+ years are on that team. If you don't have either, then you should be concerned. Ask how long the various managers have been in that org/under the same senior manager/director. A manager who you like that gets along with senior leadership is super important. Ask questions during your interview. If you interview for an org, you'll be working with most of those people. Most of them won't lie to you because you'll just leave asap or be pissed off that they were full of crap. This is all much more difficult to do if you're external, once you're in, it becomes easier to figure out if you want to work somewhere. I'm not willing to even consider an internal transfer unless someone I know will vouch for it. Too many horrible teams and a bad manager can mean you need to find a new company.
tarlinian 10y ago
Amazon out-competed the New York Times? Shouldn't they be more upset at Google or something?
- broknbottle 10y ago
  Bezos does own the Washington Post
eclipxe 10y ago
+1
geokon 10y ago
They have a very toxic reputation in the Seattle area from the few devs I've spoken to that live there. Retention rates are also supposed to be amazingly low

Terr_ 10y ago

Any particular litmus-test items to distinguish good Amazon teams from bad ones?

vaidhy 10y ago
Ask them for the ticket count metrics - number of tickets, severity and age of open ones. Overly ambitious managers tend to build unstable systems that will break under load. I am going through my second stint at Amazon and I enjoy working there. However, it is not the best place for everyone.
- jrauser 10y ago
  This is the correct answer. My advice for amazon SDEs is: either your manager puts operational excellence as their top priority or you need to find a new manager.
- Zombieball 10y ago
  Just to elaborate On the priority bit. Page count during on-call rotations is probably a huge metric to watch.
- donavanm 10y ago
  That's one (important) aspect. When looking at a team or individual I check wiki contributions, design documents, commits, code review feedback provided to others, ticket queue depth/volume, "cm" volume, customer forums, broadcast sessions, and org role/level/tenure blend. Also for teams get a referral or just send a "cold" email to have coffee with an IC on the team. I'd hazard that most of those data sources work for most of the teams at Amazon.
agumonkey 10y ago
Also probably depends on the department you're in. Warehouse packaging employees seems to be under lots of pressure.
msg 10y ago
I would ask about how long people have worked on that team, how many have come on and left in the last year, and how many headcount they are getting in OP1. This will tell you a lot about whether this team is growing and successful, stagnant, or on fire. Getting paged a lot is a hallmark of teams you don't want to be on, but in the last couple of years, Amazon has instituted policies that make it easier to internally transfer (no strict time limit on how long you have to stay with a team). Getting paged is sort of a proxy for the real thing you want to know: how many people are voting with their feet.
- donavanm 10y ago
  Check the policy again. As of 2017-04-01 (for reals) there are effectively no restrictions on internal transfers. Including "performance" restrictions.
Zombieball 10y ago
After the NYT article restrictions around transferring teams were relaxed significantly: Previously I believe you had to stay on a team for a year before you could switch. Now it's something like a month. If you find yourself on a bad team, pop open jobfinder and don't be afraid to abandon ship! Don't needlessly suffer.
mter 10y ago
Find out how many senior engineers are on that team and are participating in the oncall rotation that you will be a part of. Or, find out how many SDE IIs with 3+ years are on that team. If you don't have either, then you should be concerned. Ask how long the various managers have been in that org/under the same senior manager/director. A manager who you like that gets along with senior leadership is super important. Ask questions during your interview. If you interview for an org, you'll be working with most of those people. Most of them won't lie to you because you'll just leave asap or be pissed off that they were full of crap. This is all much more difficult to do if you're external, once you're in, it becomes easier to figure out if you want to work somewhere. I'm not willing to even consider an internal transfer unless someone I know will vouch for it. Too many horrible teams and a bad manager can mean you need to find a new company.

tarlinian 10y ago

Amazon out-competed the New York Times? Shouldn't they be more upset at Google or something?

broknbottle 10y ago
Bezos does own the Washington Post

eclipxe 10y ago

geokon 10y ago

They have a very toxic reputation in the Seattle area from the few devs I've spoken to that live there. Retention rates are also supposed to be amazingly low