3 ms·

Amazing the lengths our society will go to cling to our hedonism, even when it's killing us. We should be doing more with dietary solutions, not this.

by jshevek 10y ago

erikpukinskis 10y ago
Our society values economic growth above everything. That means you get rewarded more for creating a problem and then making it go away than for solving the problem completely. This is everywhere. Feeling lonely? You could just hang out in your yard with your neighbors and cousins, put some ice in the cooler and see what people bring over to eat. Or you could stop talking to them entirely, get dressed up in expensive clothes, and come to our exclusive lounge with other people who are up on the latest fashions as well, drink a fancy cocktail, and look down at the people who are drinking cheap beers out of a cooler. Guess which of these does more for the economy? And which one gets the crap advertised out of it?
- consz 10y ago
  What if nobody comes over to your cooler?
jermops 10y ago
That helps some forms of type-2, but not type-1. This would be a godsend for people if they can make it work reliably.
- yourapostasy 10y ago
  Judging by some posts I gleaned from /r/diabetes with a quick skim just now, even Type 1's who regulate their net carb intake benefit by being able to reduce their required insulin. In the US, that is a very significant personal financial factor with our broken healthcare system. That forum is littered with Type 1's sharing prices of their insulin medications. From what I read, there are many different kinds of insulin, and even the generic kind that WalMart sells without a prescription (in some states) is not cheap for middle-income households. And unless you have gold-plated medical insurance, the really nice insulin can run into low thousands per month, depending upon your required dosage. Type 2 takes up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funds because for most patients diet and moderate exercise can mitigate it according to enough researchers that Sweden's national health system switched to advocating low-carb for Type 2 diabetics. Karl Denninger at Market Ticker is a vociferous advocate of low carb for Type 2's, based upon his first-hand experience, and has written a lot about the financial aspects. EDIT: I'm guessing downvotes are from Type 2 patients here who get pissed off when told diet and moderate exercise can help them. I don't think folks in /r/diabetes, /r/fasting, /r/keto, Karl Denninger, Dr. Fung, etc. are saying you'll be cured; it sounds more like better control leading to fewer late-life complications (which is where the real healthcare expenses get out of control). I'm coming in at this from the life extension and the terrible US healthcare financial picture angle; I keep seeing interesting caloric restriction research intersecting with low-carb findings and keep running across diabetics fiddling around with the same protocols that caloric restriction life extension folks like me are experimenting with. As always, YMMV, but I keep seeing enough diabetics dabbling with low-carb and caloric restriction that it raises my eyebrow, and that Sweden thought it was enough to switch their recommendations should be given some consideration when putting together your own health plan.
  - imcrs 10y ago
    For type 1 and type 2, the more insulin you take per day, the lower your blood sugar will be. If you a1c is too high, you unquestionably must take more insulin. Simple as. Should you exercise more? Yeah. Should you eat better? Yeah. Should you cut refined carbs? Yes, you probably should. None of these are unique to diabetics, but they get levied on us when we talk about insulin prices or complications with our condition. Also, you owe it to yourself to be extremely skeptical when looking at any "diet doctor" selling a book. Most stretch the cure factor of lifestyle far beyond its limit. The advice to someone with a high a1c is the same in every case: take more insulin.
  - simias 10y ago
    >Judging by some posts I gleaned from /r/diabetes with a quick skim just now Well, at least you're being honest. You're replying to some people who have been fighting this disease for close to their entire life and you're trying to tell them they're doing it wrong after skimming a few subreddit posts? I'm sure you mean well but come on...
  - dfraser992 10y ago
    I gave you an upvote as I've been diabetic for 30 years (Type I) and what you say is perfectly reasonable, especially for Type 2s. I wish I'd been told of low-carb diets when I first developed it, but instead got the whole "simple carbs bad, complex carbs good" talk, which turned out to be BS once they actually did some actual research... and the lack of any discussion about how mood disorders is a low level significant effect of chronic blood sugar chaos still annoys me as well. They are only really investigating that now, based on some study I glanced at. They should have emphasized that when I was younger, really emphasized it. But instead all I got was talk about effects that would be a long way off, when I was 50 and old and etc - so they were not really real. And high fat diets were used back in the 30s before they developed insulin, but zip was said about low carb diets. To hell with the ADA. It is my fault for not developing good habits when I was younger, but also a lot of what I was told was BS. When I moved to the UK, I learned of a protocol that'd developed in Germany in the 70s that made more sense than the nth level of detail carb counting yadda yadda they taught in the States (don't know what it's like in America now, though I'm sure there is a lot more gadgets and etc available) But insulin is free here and I have saved 60k in personal costs over the years. The US is ridiculous. And no, insulin isn't the sole solution (replying to someone else). First you look at your behavior. Stop eating so much carbs. Carbs are basically poison to a diabetic (a loaded word, perhaps toxic is better). If you can't, then still adjust your diet and behavior as best you can. If you find you need lots of insulin because of insulin resistance or you are one of the small percentage who need 10x more insulin than normal, then do take it. Otherwise, get more exercise and lose weight if necessary. Blindly using more insulin only makes you get fatter and that should be a big concern, because the effects of that cascade into other problems. And caffeine... I have to cut that out, but ...I'm in IT dammit. Treating diabetes first and foremost involves behavioral changes, not fancy insulin or more gadgets. But behavioral change is so hard. I can manage a low carb diet for so long and it works great, then stress and it all falls apart because of various personal failings, not because low carb is a bad idea. It is not a cure, but I really believe it could help so many people.
firebones 10y ago
Yeah, tell that to all the hedonistic 5-year-olds who develop Type 1 juvenile diabetes. Give me a break.
jjjensen90 10y ago
It is amazing how few people know the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, and their causes and effects, like jshevek. I have had Type 1 since I was in grade school and have had to deal with countless teachers, friends, and relatives who have admonished me to just cut out sweets to treat my disease. Most of them never realize that if I stopped controlling my blood sugar with finger pricks, my insulin pump, and extreme attention to food and drink for even a day or two I would become so ill as to require hospitalization, and shortly after that, if not corrected, be in a condition which could be life-threatening (DKA). Even a person with well-controlled diabetes faces long-term complications, and it is a disease that requires constant vigilance. Multiple glucose tests per day (even with a continuous glucose monitor, you need to calibrate it with a meter test), finely tuned insulin delivery rates, insulin sensitivity calculation, insulin to carb ratio calculation, how carbohydrates of different complexity or mixing a fat or protein into your meal might affect how much insulin you need or when you need it to avoid hyper- or hypoglycemia. Minimed is coming out with an (almost) closed loop CGM/pump system, which will do continuous monitoring and also insulin delivery adjustment--I am hoping to get one, but it may be too expensive even with insurance. The fact that any company with the brains and pockets of Apple is even approaching improvements for people with Type 1 is great news...

Amazing the lengths our society will go to cling to our hedonism, even when it's killing us. We should be doing more with dietary solutions, not this.

by jshevek 10y ago

Amazing the lengths our society will go to cling to our hedonism, even when it's killing us. We should be doing more with dietary solutions, not this.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

Our society values economic growth above everything. That means you get rewarded more for creating a problem and then making it go away than for solving the problem completely. This is everywhere. Feeling lonely? You could just hang out in your yard with your neighbors and cousins, put some ice in the cooler and see what people bring over to eat. Or you could stop talking to them entirely, get dressed up in expensive clothes, and come to our exclusive lounge with other people who are up on the latest fashions as well, drink a fancy cocktail, and look down at the people who are drinking cheap beers out of a cooler. Guess which of these does more for the economy? And which one gets the crap advertised out of it?

consz 10y ago
What if nobody comes over to your cooler?

jermops 10y ago

That helps some forms of type-2, but not type-1. This would be a godsend for people if they can make it work reliably.

yourapostasy 10y ago
Judging by some posts I gleaned from /r/diabetes with a quick skim just now, even Type 1's who regulate their net carb intake benefit by being able to reduce their required insulin. In the US, that is a very significant personal financial factor with our broken healthcare system. That forum is littered with Type 1's sharing prices of their insulin medications. From what I read, there are many different kinds of insulin, and even the generic kind that WalMart sells without a prescription (in some states) is not cheap for middle-income households. And unless you have gold-plated medical insurance, the really nice insulin can run into low thousands per month, depending upon your required dosage. Type 2 takes up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funds because for most patients diet and moderate exercise can mitigate it according to enough researchers that Sweden's national health system switched to advocating low-carb for Type 2 diabetics. Karl Denninger at Market Ticker is a vociferous advocate of low carb for Type 2's, based upon his first-hand experience, and has written a lot about the financial aspects. EDIT: I'm guessing downvotes are from Type 2 patients here who get pissed off when told diet and moderate exercise can help them. I don't think folks in /r/diabetes, /r/fasting, /r/keto, Karl Denninger, Dr. Fung, etc. are saying you'll be cured; it sounds more like better control leading to fewer late-life complications (which is where the real healthcare expenses get out of control). I'm coming in at this from the life extension and the terrible US healthcare financial picture angle; I keep seeing interesting caloric restriction research intersecting with low-carb findings and keep running across diabetics fiddling around with the same protocols that caloric restriction life extension folks like me are experimenting with. As always, YMMV, but I keep seeing enough diabetics dabbling with low-carb and caloric restriction that it raises my eyebrow, and that Sweden thought it was enough to switch their recommendations should be given some consideration when putting together your own health plan.
- imcrs 10y ago
  For type 1 and type 2, the more insulin you take per day, the lower your blood sugar will be. If you a1c is too high, you unquestionably must take more insulin. Simple as. Should you exercise more? Yeah. Should you eat better? Yeah. Should you cut refined carbs? Yes, you probably should. None of these are unique to diabetics, but they get levied on us when we talk about insulin prices or complications with our condition. Also, you owe it to yourself to be extremely skeptical when looking at any "diet doctor" selling a book. Most stretch the cure factor of lifestyle far beyond its limit. The advice to someone with a high a1c is the same in every case: take more insulin.
- simias 10y ago
  >Judging by some posts I gleaned from /r/diabetes with a quick skim just now Well, at least you're being honest. You're replying to some people who have been fighting this disease for close to their entire life and you're trying to tell them they're doing it wrong after skimming a few subreddit posts? I'm sure you mean well but come on...
- dfraser992 10y ago
  I gave you an upvote as I've been diabetic for 30 years (Type I) and what you say is perfectly reasonable, especially for Type 2s. I wish I'd been told of low-carb diets when I first developed it, but instead got the whole "simple carbs bad, complex carbs good" talk, which turned out to be BS once they actually did some actual research... and the lack of any discussion about how mood disorders is a low level significant effect of chronic blood sugar chaos still annoys me as well. They are only really investigating that now, based on some study I glanced at. They should have emphasized that when I was younger, really emphasized it. But instead all I got was talk about effects that would be a long way off, when I was 50 and old and etc - so they were not really real. And high fat diets were used back in the 30s before they developed insulin, but zip was said about low carb diets. To hell with the ADA. It is my fault for not developing good habits when I was younger, but also a lot of what I was told was BS. When I moved to the UK, I learned of a protocol that'd developed in Germany in the 70s that made more sense than the nth level of detail carb counting yadda yadda they taught in the States (don't know what it's like in America now, though I'm sure there is a lot more gadgets and etc available) But insulin is free here and I have saved 60k in personal costs over the years. The US is ridiculous. And no, insulin isn't the sole solution (replying to someone else). First you look at your behavior. Stop eating so much carbs. Carbs are basically poison to a diabetic (a loaded word, perhaps toxic is better). If you can't, then still adjust your diet and behavior as best you can. If you find you need lots of insulin because of insulin resistance or you are one of the small percentage who need 10x more insulin than normal, then do take it. Otherwise, get more exercise and lose weight if necessary. Blindly using more insulin only makes you get fatter and that should be a big concern, because the effects of that cascade into other problems. And caffeine... I have to cut that out, but ...I'm in IT dammit. Treating diabetes first and foremost involves behavioral changes, not fancy insulin or more gadgets. But behavioral change is so hard. I can manage a low carb diet for so long and it works great, then stress and it all falls apart because of various personal failings, not because low carb is a bad idea. It is not a cure, but I really believe it could help so many people.

firebones 10y ago

Yeah, tell that to all the hedonistic 5-year-olds who develop Type 1 juvenile diabetes. Give me a break.

jjjensen90 10y ago

It is amazing how few people know the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, and their causes and effects, like jshevek. I have had Type 1 since I was in grade school and have had to deal with countless teachers, friends, and relatives who have admonished me to just cut out sweets to treat my disease. Most of them never realize that if I stopped controlling my blood sugar with finger pricks, my insulin pump, and extreme attention to food and drink for even a day or two I would become so ill as to require hospitalization, and shortly after that, if not corrected, be in a condition which could be life-threatening (DKA). Even a person with well-controlled diabetes faces long-term complications, and it is a disease that requires constant vigilance. Multiple glucose tests per day (even with a continuous glucose monitor, you need to calibrate it with a meter test), finely tuned insulin delivery rates, insulin sensitivity calculation, insulin to carb ratio calculation, how carbohydrates of different complexity or mixing a fat or protein into your meal might affect how much insulin you need or when you need it to avoid hyper- or hypoglycemia. Minimed is coming out with an (almost) closed loop CGM/pump system, which will do continuous monitoring and also insulin delivery adjustment--I am hoping to get one, but it may be too expensive even with insurance. The fact that any company with the brains and pockets of Apple is even approaching improvements for people with Type 1 is great news...