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Counterpoint: it's also worth considering the costs of breaking with tradition. I mean, sure, nobody has to get married. But then you might not get custody rig

Counterpoint: it's also worth considering the costs of breaking with tradition. I mean, sure, nobody has to get married. But then you might not get custody rights over your children. It might be more difficult to pick your kids up from school. Perhaps it will complicate inheritance. You won't get the tax breaks. You'll have to explain your relationship every time you're introduced to more traditional people, which might include family, or various other people with whom you'd just rather not get into an extended conversation about your life choices. It might complicate banking, especially in case one partner is survived by the other. There's a direct analog to this in tech. Sure, you're only going to win by innovating. But you have to do so sparingly, knowing that innovation is risky, expensive, and difficult. Sometimes, perhaps most of the time, it's best to "just use postgres". There are certain things worth innovating on. Perhaps the exchange of some token item (a diamond) is worth one of them. For me, it wasn't, I just bought the stupid thing, and got on with my life. It's nice, it'll last, and it's a time-honored tradition I'll never have to get into 1000 annoying discussions over. Life is just too short, everybody knows it's a diamond, we're married, great.

imesh 10y ago
Is this a cultural thing? I have had 0 discussions about a non-diamond ring.
- Steeeve 10y ago
  I was in a museum the other day when a guy asked his girlfriend how she would feel about a non-diamond engagement ring. Her reaction was hysterical, and a good laugh was had by about 20 other people. Not likely they are going to be a thing too much longer.
  - mixmastamyk 10y ago
    Hysterical but not worth mentioning, eh?
    - Steeeve 10y ago
      Sorry... I don't know how to put it into words. There was an immediate pause felt by everyone within earshot, including her. You could tell she was deciding whether the pressure of being in a public social atmosphere was enough to get her to go forever diamond-less. Then the sense of frustration and being offended took over. There was a shriek. There were animated movements. There were at least 7 different facial expressions ranging from anger to flabbergasted to vengeful to mad scientist. There was a very firm "No!" There were some other more colorful words. She stomped off. He followed like a puppy with a tail between his legs. The crowd laughed. Sorry... I'm not really good at this.
      - srtjstjsj 10y ago
        That's really sad because he was 98% on the right side of the issue, bullied by jerks in the service of a criminal enterprise (deBeers).
        Steeeve 10y ago
        I don't disagree. But it was a funny moment. He came at it rather innocuously - like he didn't know that it would be a firecracker of a question. Probably was just making conversation. You could have heard a pin drop waiting for her answer though. A room full of people went dead silent. I had a relative that was a jeweler at one point. She's the only person I know who opted out of a diamond engagement ring. "waste of money. there are prettier things that can mean more" Her engagement ring was awesome. I don't know enough about stones to say what it was, but she got compliments frequently.
- wccrawford 10y ago
  My wife and I talked about it beforehand, and specifically decided not to get a diamond ring. Instead, we spent a lot of time looking for the right ring and then also looking for the right jewel to put in the center of it. It was a lot more personal than a diamond... But also a lot more personal than the random ring a guy buys and hopes she likes it forever.
mixmastamyk 10y ago
Liked your main point, but diamond rings are not time honored but invented through advertising.
ryanwaggoner 10y ago
You're conflating the cultural traditions of marriage with the legal arrangement. You can still get legally married but dump any of the traditions around it that you want.
v64 10y ago
> You won't get the tax breaks. Or in the case of a lot of folks like myself, it's worth it to break tradition to avoid jumping into a higher tax bracket due to the marriage penalty [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty
hx87 10y ago
What are the costs of breaking with "tradition" (mostly 19th century inventions) on a wedding?
- srtjstjsj 10y ago
  Honest answer: ask your parents, your spouse, and your spouse's parents.

imesh 10y ago

Is this a cultural thing? I have had 0 discussions about a non-diamond ring.

Steeeve 10y ago
I was in a museum the other day when a guy asked his girlfriend how she would feel about a non-diamond engagement ring. Her reaction was hysterical, and a good laugh was had by about 20 other people. Not likely they are going to be a thing too much longer.
- mixmastamyk 10y ago
  Hysterical but not worth mentioning, eh?
  - Steeeve 10y ago
    Sorry... I don't know how to put it into words. There was an immediate pause felt by everyone within earshot, including her. You could tell she was deciding whether the pressure of being in a public social atmosphere was enough to get her to go forever diamond-less. Then the sense of frustration and being offended took over. There was a shriek. There were animated movements. There were at least 7 different facial expressions ranging from anger to flabbergasted to vengeful to mad scientist. There was a very firm "No!" There were some other more colorful words. She stomped off. He followed like a puppy with a tail between his legs. The crowd laughed. Sorry... I'm not really good at this.
    - srtjstjsj 10y ago
      That's really sad because he was 98% on the right side of the issue, bullied by jerks in the service of a criminal enterprise (deBeers).
      - Steeeve 10y ago
        I don't disagree. But it was a funny moment. He came at it rather innocuously - like he didn't know that it would be a firecracker of a question. Probably was just making conversation. You could have heard a pin drop waiting for her answer though. A room full of people went dead silent. I had a relative that was a jeweler at one point. She's the only person I know who opted out of a diamond engagement ring. "waste of money. there are prettier things that can mean more" Her engagement ring was awesome. I don't know enough about stones to say what it was, but she got compliments frequently.
wccrawford 10y ago
My wife and I talked about it beforehand, and specifically decided not to get a diamond ring. Instead, we spent a lot of time looking for the right ring and then also looking for the right jewel to put in the center of it. It was a lot more personal than a diamond... But also a lot more personal than the random ring a guy buys and hopes she likes it forever.

mixmastamyk 10y ago

Liked your main point, but diamond rings are not time honored but invented through advertising.

ryanwaggoner 10y ago

You're conflating the cultural traditions of marriage with the legal arrangement. You can still get legally married but dump any of the traditions around it that you want.

v64 10y ago

> You won't get the tax breaks. Or in the case of a lot of folks like myself, it's worth it to break tradition to avoid jumping into a higher tax bracket due to the marriage penalty [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty

hx87 10y ago

What are the costs of breaking with "tradition" (mostly 19th century inventions) on a wedding?

srtjstjsj 10y ago
Honest answer: ask your parents, your spouse, and your spouse's parents.