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This is actually a pretty good comparison, and I can get behind his critique of the iPhone's mail app. It's worth noting, though, that several of his major iss

This is actually a pretty good comparison, and I can get behind his critique of the iPhone's mail app. It's worth noting, though, that several of his major issues with the iPhone will disappear with OS 4.0, such as undesired screen rotation and lack of app switching (though only for 3GS or newer phones). The mail app will also get improvements like conversations, though I don't know how good its implementation is compared to Android's. I wasn't particularly impressed by it.

masklinn 16y ago
> This is actually a pretty good comparison, and I can get behind his critique of the iPhone's mail app. Likewise. On the other hand, I find interesting that (I think) he compared the iPhone's mail application with Android's GMail application. I was under the impression that Android's own mail application (for everything other than GMail) was less than stellar, but that it would be a better comparison basis (general-purpose MUA) > The mail app will also get improvements like conversations I was under the impression that it would only provide threaded view (much like Mail.app's own), which is a far cry from GMail-type conversation views. A nice improvement for e.g. mailing lists, but not the same thing as GMail's convos.
- dieterrams 16y ago
  You're right, I should have said threads, and yes, they're a far cry from GMail conversations. I actually don't understand why conversations aren't more widely implemented. Is it particularly difficult to determine which messages belong to the same conversation? You're also right that he compared iPhone Mail to Android GMail, which offers a better experience than standard Android mail. On the other hand, the iPhone Mail interface doesn't get any better if you use MobileMe. Using MobileMe would have given him the equivalent of Where's my Droid?, though.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > Is it particularly difficult to determine which messages belong to the same conversation? Probably, the outbox might have a different structure than the inbox, and lack some kinds of IDs. > On the other hand, the iPhone Mail interface doesn't get any better if you use MobileMe. Absolutely (well I think you get push support, but that's about it), and I think this here is a core difference between Apple and Google: with Google, the Service (Gmail) is given a seat front and center (its own MUA) because it's what Google "sells", whereas with Apple the service (MobileMe) is really nothing more than a perk, it doesn't have any kind of primary status on the device, and it's not expected that it be the main service for users of the device.
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > Probably, the outbox might have a different structure than the inbox, and lack some kinds of IDs. It should be trivial to associate the messages the mail client sends to the messages it gets from a server. If nothing else, you have the full original message.
- usaar333 16y ago
  I sought to compare it for gmail users (which I suspect the majority of us are) - the gmail experience on Android blows away the iPhone. It would also be valid to point out that Android can't sync with iTunes - if you are an extensive iTunes user, music transferring on the iPhone blows away Android's.
drivebyacct 16y ago
Many people seem to think that OS 4 is going to bring this awesome multitasking. I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed people when they find out just how it works, seeing as the API for actually creating background services is crippled and the app switching is just a poorly implemented copy of Android pause/resume functionality.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  It seems tailored for specific use cases and the various scenarios it handles seem to me to have been addressed well. Is it the particular scenarios that you feel aren't sufficiently well handled or is it that there are scenarios that aren't handled at all? (I'm sure there are some scenarios that aren't handled at all, but I haven't thought of any that would be glaringly missing in the vast majority of people's usage.) Also, I'm curious what about the app switching is more poorly implemented than Android's version of the same?
  - usaar333 16y ago
    That apps are killed slows it down. On Android it takes just over half a second to switch applications. For apps that start fast (notepad), this is no big deal. But for things like the browser or skype, it is. It takes 4 seconds for him to switch back to swype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkbDcZ_9-k#t=2m30s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkbDcZ_9-k#t=2m30s This is also seen when switching to the browser near the end of Techcrunch's video: http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/08/first-video-of-iphone-multitasking/ http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/08/first-video-of-iphone...
    - glhaynes 16y ago
      I've wondered why iOS kills the last app when it switches away... is it that iOS devices are more memory constrained? Is it that they don't want to disrupt the foreground app by collecting that memory when it's needed rather than immediately? Is it that they want app developers to be more careful about being able to reopen to the same spot they were, perhaps so that the experience of opening the app isn't different depending on whether the app got terminated while in the background or not (or even between device boots)?

masklinn 16y ago

> This is actually a pretty good comparison, and I can get behind his critique of the iPhone's mail app. Likewise. On the other hand, I find interesting that (I think) he compared the iPhone's mail application with Android's GMail application. I was under the impression that Android's own mail application (for everything other than GMail) was less than stellar, but that it would be a better comparison basis (general-purpose MUA) > The mail app will also get improvements like conversations I was under the impression that it would only provide threaded view (much like Mail.app's own), which is a far cry from GMail-type conversation views. A nice improvement for e.g. mailing lists, but not the same thing as GMail's convos.

dieterrams 16y ago
You're right, I should have said threads, and yes, they're a far cry from GMail conversations. I actually don't understand why conversations aren't more widely implemented. Is it particularly difficult to determine which messages belong to the same conversation? You're also right that he compared iPhone Mail to Android GMail, which offers a better experience than standard Android mail. On the other hand, the iPhone Mail interface doesn't get any better if you use MobileMe. Using MobileMe would have given him the equivalent of Where's my Droid?, though.
- masklinn 16y ago
  > Is it particularly difficult to determine which messages belong to the same conversation? Probably, the outbox might have a different structure than the inbox, and lack some kinds of IDs. > On the other hand, the iPhone Mail interface doesn't get any better if you use MobileMe. Absolutely (well I think you get push support, but that's about it), and I think this here is a core difference between Apple and Google: with Google, the Service (Gmail) is given a seat front and center (its own MUA) because it's what Google "sells", whereas with Apple the service (MobileMe) is really nothing more than a perk, it doesn't have any kind of primary status on the device, and it's not expected that it be the main service for users of the device.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > Probably, the outbox might have a different structure than the inbox, and lack some kinds of IDs. It should be trivial to associate the messages the mail client sends to the messages it gets from a server. If nothing else, you have the full original message.
usaar333 16y ago
I sought to compare it for gmail users (which I suspect the majority of us are) - the gmail experience on Android blows away the iPhone. It would also be valid to point out that Android can't sync with iTunes - if you are an extensive iTunes user, music transferring on the iPhone blows away Android's.

drivebyacct 16y ago

Many people seem to think that OS 4 is going to bring this awesome multitasking. I think there's going to be a lot of disappointed people when they find out just how it works, seeing as the API for actually creating background services is crippled and the app switching is just a poorly implemented copy of Android pause/resume functionality.

glhaynes 16y ago
It seems tailored for specific use cases and the various scenarios it handles seem to me to have been addressed well. Is it the particular scenarios that you feel aren't sufficiently well handled or is it that there are scenarios that aren't handled at all? (I'm sure there are some scenarios that aren't handled at all, but I haven't thought of any that would be glaringly missing in the vast majority of people's usage.) Also, I'm curious what about the app switching is more poorly implemented than Android's version of the same?
- usaar333 16y ago
  That apps are killed slows it down. On Android it takes just over half a second to switch applications. For apps that start fast (notepad), this is no big deal. But for things like the browser or skype, it is. It takes 4 seconds for him to switch back to swype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkbDcZ_9-k#t=2m30s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThkbDcZ_9-k#t=2m30s This is also seen when switching to the browser near the end of Techcrunch's video: http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/08/first-video-of-iphone-multitasking/ http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/04/08/first-video-of-iphone...
  - glhaynes 16y ago
    I've wondered why iOS kills the last app when it switches away... is it that iOS devices are more memory constrained? Is it that they don't want to disrupt the foreground app by collecting that memory when it's needed rather than immediately? Is it that they want app developers to be more careful about being able to reopen to the same spot they were, perhaps so that the experience of opening the app isn't different depending on whether the app got terminated while in the background or not (or even between device boots)?