6 ms·

PIA and Freenode joining forces

117 points by blibble 10y ago

pekk 10y ago
PIA has already supported Freenode for a long time. In return, Freenode has consistently sabotaged the Tor service so that the only way to connect safely is with a VPN.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- mst 10y ago
  tor was being used for password brute force attacks and required significant infrastructure fixing to make it work safely. It's now fixed. If you continue to have problems, please file a support ticket rather than throwing around unfounded accusations of sabotage.
  - Famicoman 10y ago
    How was it fixed, if you happen to know?
    - mst 10y ago
      Rewriting a bunch of stuff to achieve a combination of less information leakage and better rate limiting, I think. I did briefly attempt to understand the relevant chunk of C code, but my eyes crossed and I developed a headache. So sorry if that's a bit vague.
- KindOne 10y ago
  >Freenode has consistently sabotaged the Tor service No. Some idiots decided to brute force passwords via tor. They finally fixed it after a few years or so.
throwawayleaker 10y ago
privateinternetaccess is a CIA front fyi
donatj 10y ago
Interesting. I have a lot of trust in PIA for now.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  I think they're one of the better VPN companies but they're under US jurisdiction, which makes them vulnerable to NSLs and other forms of government surveillance. Yes they don't log, so they can't be subpoena'd for past information but they can be compelled to provide ongoing interception. I'd be interested to know however whether the US government can intercept traffic to/from: - Servers located in the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated and staffed outside the USA. - Servers located outside the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated or staffed inside the USA. It seems to me that as long as you're using a US-based VPN server, there's always the risk the cloud or transit provider can be compelled to intercept traffic regardless of the owner's jurisdiction. The question of how well protected non-American servers operated by Americans are still seems to be unanswered too. Microsoft seems to be winning their case against handing over overseas data[0] but Google seems to be losing[1]. [0]: https://secure.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/01/microsoft-data-broad-appeals-court-234098 https://secure.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/01/mi... [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/02/03/google-must-turn-over-foreign-stored-e-mails-pursuant-to-a-warrant-court-rules/?utm_term=.8c2a760dfe1c https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
  - mst 10y ago
    Happily, the freenode non-profit is not under US jurisdiction so we don't even have that problem. I have no idea how exactly it affects PIA though.
  - mschuster91 10y ago
    > - Servers located in the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated and staffed outside the USA. Not terrorism/other serious crimes, but Megaupload had the same constellation (they had some US colocated servers), and it will unfortunately likely end with Kim Dotcom being deported to the US. So yes, such a service constellation may very well lead to deportations to the US as soon as some bought-off or incompetent US judge/DA gets his rubberstamp. The massive outreach of the US (not just this, but also that their citizenship is bound to paying taxes, even abroad - leading to the massive ... called FATCA) is something that really angers me. But hey, it's difficult to argue with a country that might send four dozen Tomahawks based on the current Fox News programming. (Obviously sarcastic, but the "the US regularly abuses its foreign power" still stands)
mst 10y ago
"Purchased by" is a clickbait lie. Please can we use the actual title of the actual blog post. Edit: Thanks!
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  Do you believe that freenode wasn't "purchased"? The details are a bit light but that certainly sounds like what happened -- PIA now "owns" the non-profit entity freenode (and christel scored a job out of it).
  - mst 10y ago
    There is a significant distinction between "company X hires open source person Y and allows them to spend some of their time on project Z" and "company X now owns project Z". Wild speculation based on "I think it sounds like that" isn't actually constructive. I've had the blog post updated to say "allied with" rather than "joining the family of" in the hopes that people will actually read the words going forwards rather than jumping to conclusions.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      Maybe, if the words were actually informative, there'd be less jumping to conclusion. As it stands, the blog post just isn't very transparent. It mentions PIA "provid[ing] us with opportunities and resources going forward, including an operating budget", and that it is "now officially part of the PIA family". So you have money changing hands, and property changing hands. That doesn't sound like a sale, it's what it is. Unfortunately, it's rather thin on substance regarding future intentions. But I guess it could indeed make sense purely as a pro-bono project with a bit of a PR windfall for PIA.
    - mediocrejoker 10y ago
      Legally allied is a bit vague, no?
    - jlgaddis 10y ago
      > There is a significant distinction between "company X hires open source person Y and allows them to spend some of their time on project Z" and "company X now owns project Z". I completely agree. The former doesn't generally result in a press release and/or public announcement that includes phrases such as "... will continue to operate as a not-for-profit entity under the same management, with the same principles, ...". Personally, I don't care one way or the other whether this was a "purchase" or a "merger" or "alliance" or whatever you want to call it. I have been a freenode user (and, if memory serves, an "occasional financial supporter") since (probably) shortly after it became freenode and I expect that I will continue to be a freenode user in the future (unless something major happens to change that). Vaguely worded announcements and a lack of detail, however, tend to cause things like "wild speculation" and "jumping to conclusions".
ryanlol 10y ago
I wonder if this is a sign that freenode is returning to their old ways http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/
- andoon 10y ago
  I don't think it will sink to what it was when lilo still lived. I find it funny that article calls him "professional online beggar", because he was way worse than that. Not that the network was better handled after his disappearance though.
  - mst 10y ago
    Thanks for that! After all, it's not properly a comment thread about freenode until a newly registered account turns up to piss on our founder's grave.
    - deelowe 10y ago
      I didn't know lilo was no longer with us. That sucks...
    - andoon 10y ago
      I'd piss off on your founder's grave using my 14-year old account on freenode, but that would just get me k-lined. Well, no. All your old opers left because money from donations keeps disappearing. Your new opers probably don't even know how to apply a k-line and rely on that supybot you have to administer the network. I'm safe.
andoon 10y ago
freenode is such a dumpster fire. Well, it's always been a dumpster fire, but since a ton of opers resigned because it wasn't clear what was happening with the donations, it's just getting worse and worse. Let's see what comes from this.
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  This post is the truth, freenode always has been really poorly managed from its inception, its amazing it remains so popular. During the javascript irc flooding attacks a while back, efnet took 1 day to patch their servers, rizon took 3, freenode took 7 months (of nonstop netsplits and network breakage)
martin1975 10y ago
Makes me feel a tad better for my yearlong PIA subscription :)
betaby 10y ago
I feel there could conflict of interest. Also it's unclear how now sponsored server are related or unrelated withing legal frameworks to the fact that the author has role in PIA.
taglead 10y ago
London Trust Media (Private Internet Access) is known for selling your data and they even release your information in unnecessary places. You can see basic examples of their disregard and carelessness publicly for instance on their HOW IT WORKS page where they show your IP address, one of the main privacy items they claim to protect (and they promote their ability to hide your location too, a side effect of hiding your IP address). Displaying your IP address back to you is unnecessary because anyone who would know what theirs is wouldn't want to see it waived around whereas everyone else doesn't even notice that IP address is theirs. They could have used a demo IP address instead for their example, where they show how they make your unencrypted web traffic "encrypted".

117 points by blibble 10y ago

pekk 10y ago

PIA has already supported Freenode for a long time. In return, Freenode has consistently sabotaged the Tor service so that the only way to connect safely is with a VPN.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
mst 10y ago
tor was being used for password brute force attacks and required significant infrastructure fixing to make it work safely. It's now fixed. If you continue to have problems, please file a support ticket rather than throwing around unfounded accusations of sabotage.
- Famicoman 10y ago
  How was it fixed, if you happen to know?
  - mst 10y ago
    Rewriting a bunch of stuff to achieve a combination of less information leakage and better rate limiting, I think. I did briefly attempt to understand the relevant chunk of C code, but my eyes crossed and I developed a headache. So sorry if that's a bit vague.
KindOne 10y ago
>Freenode has consistently sabotaged the Tor service No. Some idiots decided to brute force passwords via tor. They finally fixed it after a few years or so.

throwawayleaker 10y ago

privateinternetaccess is a CIA front fyi

donatj 10y ago

Interesting. I have a lot of trust in PIA for now.

Veratyr 10y ago
I think they're one of the better VPN companies but they're under US jurisdiction, which makes them vulnerable to NSLs and other forms of government surveillance. Yes they don't log, so they can't be subpoena'd for past information but they can be compelled to provide ongoing interception. I'd be interested to know however whether the US government can intercept traffic to/from: - Servers located in the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated and staffed outside the USA. - Servers located outside the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated or staffed inside the USA. It seems to me that as long as you're using a US-based VPN server, there's always the risk the cloud or transit provider can be compelled to intercept traffic regardless of the owner's jurisdiction. The question of how well protected non-American servers operated by Americans are still seems to be unanswered too. Microsoft seems to be winning their case against handing over overseas data[0] but Google seems to be losing[1]. [0]: https://secure.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/01/microsoft-data-broad-appeals-court-234098 https://secure.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/01/mi... [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/02/03/google-must-turn-over-foreign-stored-e-mails-pursuant-to-a-warrant-court-rules/?utm_term=.8c2a760dfe1c https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
- mst 10y ago
  Happily, the freenode non-profit is not under US jurisdiction so we don't even have that problem. I have no idea how exactly it affects PIA though.
- mschuster91 10y ago
  > - Servers located in the USA but operated by VPN companies incorporated and staffed outside the USA. Not terrorism/other serious crimes, but Megaupload had the same constellation (they had some US colocated servers), and it will unfortunately likely end with Kim Dotcom being deported to the US. So yes, such a service constellation may very well lead to deportations to the US as soon as some bought-off or incompetent US judge/DA gets his rubberstamp. The massive outreach of the US (not just this, but also that their citizenship is bound to paying taxes, even abroad - leading to the massive ... called FATCA) is something that really angers me. But hey, it's difficult to argue with a country that might send four dozen Tomahawks based on the current Fox News programming. (Obviously sarcastic, but the "the US regularly abuses its foreign power" still stands)

mst 10y ago

"Purchased by" is a clickbait lie. Please can we use the actual title of the actual blog post. Edit: Thanks!

jlgaddis 10y ago
Do you believe that freenode wasn't "purchased"? The details are a bit light but that certainly sounds like what happened -- PIA now "owns" the non-profit entity freenode (and christel scored a job out of it).
- mst 10y ago
  There is a significant distinction between "company X hires open source person Y and allows them to spend some of their time on project Z" and "company X now owns project Z". Wild speculation based on "I think it sounds like that" isn't actually constructive. I've had the blog post updated to say "allied with" rather than "joining the family of" in the hopes that people will actually read the words going forwards rather than jumping to conclusions.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    Maybe, if the words were actually informative, there'd be less jumping to conclusion. As it stands, the blog post just isn't very transparent. It mentions PIA "provid[ing] us with opportunities and resources going forward, including an operating budget", and that it is "now officially part of the PIA family". So you have money changing hands, and property changing hands. That doesn't sound like a sale, it's what it is. Unfortunately, it's rather thin on substance regarding future intentions. But I guess it could indeed make sense purely as a pro-bono project with a bit of a PR windfall for PIA.
  - mediocrejoker 10y ago
    Legally allied is a bit vague, no?
  - jlgaddis 10y ago
    > There is a significant distinction between "company X hires open source person Y and allows them to spend some of their time on project Z" and "company X now owns project Z". I completely agree. The former doesn't generally result in a press release and/or public announcement that includes phrases such as "... will continue to operate as a not-for-profit entity under the same management, with the same principles, ...". Personally, I don't care one way or the other whether this was a "purchase" or a "merger" or "alliance" or whatever you want to call it. I have been a freenode user (and, if memory serves, an "occasional financial supporter") since (probably) shortly after it became freenode and I expect that I will continue to be a freenode user in the future (unless something major happens to change that). Vaguely worded announcements and a lack of detail, however, tend to cause things like "wild speculation" and "jumping to conclusions".

ryanlol 10y ago

I wonder if this is a sign that freenode is returning to their old ways http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/29/buy_a_piece_of_net/

andoon 10y ago
I don't think it will sink to what it was when lilo still lived. I find it funny that article calls him "professional online beggar", because he was way worse than that. Not that the network was better handled after his disappearance though.
- mst 10y ago
  Thanks for that! After all, it's not properly a comment thread about freenode until a newly registered account turns up to piss on our founder's grave.
  - deelowe 10y ago
    I didn't know lilo was no longer with us. That sucks...
  - andoon 10y ago
    I'd piss off on your founder's grave using my 14-year old account on freenode, but that would just get me k-lined. Well, no. All your old opers left because money from donations keeps disappearing. Your new opers probably don't even know how to apply a k-line and rely on that supybot you have to administer the network. I'm safe.

andoon 10y ago

freenode is such a dumpster fire. Well, it's always been a dumpster fire, but since a ton of opers resigned because it wasn't clear what was happening with the donations, it's just getting worse and worse. Let's see what comes from this.

throwaway2048 10y ago
This post is the truth, freenode always has been really poorly managed from its inception, its amazing it remains so popular. During the javascript irc flooding attacks a while back, efnet took 1 day to patch their servers, rizon took 3, freenode took 7 months (of nonstop netsplits and network breakage)

martin1975 10y ago

Makes me feel a tad better for my yearlong PIA subscription :)

betaby 10y ago

I feel there could conflict of interest. Also it's unclear how now sponsored server are related or unrelated withing legal frameworks to the fact that the author has role in PIA.

taglead 10y ago

London Trust Media (Private Internet Access) is known for selling your data and they even release your information in unnecessary places. You can see basic examples of their disregard and carelessness publicly for instance on their HOW IT WORKS page where they show your IP address, one of the main privacy items they claim to protect (and they promote their ability to hide your location too, a side effect of hiding your IP address). Displaying your IP address back to you is unnecessary because anyone who would know what theirs is wouldn't want to see it waived around whereas everyone else doesn't even notice that IP address is theirs. They could have used a demo IP address instead for their example, where they show how they make your unencrypted web traffic "encrypted".