3 ms·

While I dislike your question[0], it is a really good question! Because you're correct that a reasonable number of Zorastrians may not consider converts Zorastr

While I dislike your question[0], it is a really good question! Because you're correct that a reasonable number of Zorastrians may not consider converts Zorastrian. Frankly, I don't know, and I don't know what a quorum of Zorastrians would say (from my experience, the majority would consider them Zorastrian). What I will say is, I do think this question/your perspective is archaic (sorry for the harsh words, I have biases too :P). And I'll try to explain in the most HN way possible (i.e. the reasoning which convinces me the most, about most things). Personally, I don't know these people, it is unlikely you do either. By any reasonable estimate no person knows any other person. All we can know are the inputs and the outputs provided to the black box which is "a person". As such, I subscribe to the idea that, the only real test which can be applied is one suggested by Turing[1]. If these people, including Julia Roberts, act the part they claim to be, so well that in a "blind" assessment they act so flawlessly that the observer cannot tell otherwise, then until proven otherwise, they must be Zorastrian or Hindu. P.S. I know I need to work on being more succinct :) [0] Respectfully, - Are there any real Scotsmen? - If there is such a thing, what makes a real Zorastrian? - Which person/people alive have the right to judge? [1] If you are aware of a better assessment technique, sincerely, I would be overjoyed to hear it!

redsummer 10y ago
"the majority would consider them Z" That's not what a few google results tell me. It seems, in India the answer is definitely No, while in Iran the answer is Maybe. The Indian No is presumably to stop the religion dissipating, while the Iranian Maybe is a kind of "well, they're ancestors were probably Z anyway." In the West, people would follow the notion that there is a spiritual supermarket, and you just choose which flavour suits you, so it's a Yes there. I don't prescribe to your Turing idea. People are not black box machines pretending to be humans. Rachel Dolezal was not black on one day and white on another.
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  Do not mix "Zorastrian" and "Parsi". "Indian Zorastrian"s is sometimes used by people not "in the know" to describe "Parsi"s. FWIW, sometimes even people "in the know" would use this lose equality while writing an article for people not "in the know". You cannot convert into being Parsi. The same way you might be able to convert to Judaism, but you can only be born a Jew. As such there maybe a misconception online about Indian Zorastrians' opinion on converting to become Zorastrian. Additionally, keep in mind regardless of the debate you'll always see the more passionate opinion publicized rather than the more apathetic opinion (i.e. "I don't care either way if they want to convert. Good for them").
  - redsummer 10y ago
    I didn't mix Z and Parsi. I didn't even mention Parsi. I just can't find anything online which suggests Indian Zoroastrians accept converts. Just (dispassionate) explanations that they don't. And that's fine with me. I've no doubt that there are some deracinated Parsis in the West that claim that "nobody minds" in order to make Z fit in with other religions. But that strikes me as almost a form of group suicide. If you feel that way about other groups it would end with their erasure. Why not just concrete over North Sentinel Island and turn it into a startup hub?
    - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
      Reading this, my sister sent me a message. According to her, Historically, inviting others to convert, from the wrong perspective, can look like an attempt to steal devouts. As refugees, in both India and Iran, they don't want to "push their luck". However, the political climate has softened and continues to soften, and Zorastrians as I've said in other posts are very accepting of everything. You do not need to believe me, I only have empirical evidence, no facts or links for you. However, frankly, from a culture perspective, we have to be accepting. We owe our survival to the acceptance others gave us.

redsummer 10y ago

"the majority would consider them Z" That's not what a few google results tell me. It seems, in India the answer is definitely No, while in Iran the answer is Maybe. The Indian No is presumably to stop the religion dissipating, while the Iranian Maybe is a kind of "well, they're ancestors were probably Z anyway." In the West, people would follow the notion that there is a spiritual supermarket, and you just choose which flavour suits you, so it's a Yes there. I don't prescribe to your Turing idea. People are not black box machines pretending to be humans. Rachel Dolezal was not black on one day and white on another.

yazaddaruvala 10y ago
Do not mix "Zorastrian" and "Parsi". "Indian Zorastrian"s is sometimes used by people not "in the know" to describe "Parsi"s. FWIW, sometimes even people "in the know" would use this lose equality while writing an article for people not "in the know". You cannot convert into being Parsi. The same way you might be able to convert to Judaism, but you can only be born a Jew. As such there maybe a misconception online about Indian Zorastrians' opinion on converting to become Zorastrian. Additionally, keep in mind regardless of the debate you'll always see the more passionate opinion publicized rather than the more apathetic opinion (i.e. "I don't care either way if they want to convert. Good for them").
- redsummer 10y ago
  I didn't mix Z and Parsi. I didn't even mention Parsi. I just can't find anything online which suggests Indian Zoroastrians accept converts. Just (dispassionate) explanations that they don't. And that's fine with me. I've no doubt that there are some deracinated Parsis in the West that claim that "nobody minds" in order to make Z fit in with other religions. But that strikes me as almost a form of group suicide. If you feel that way about other groups it would end with their erasure. Why not just concrete over North Sentinel Island and turn it into a startup hub?
  - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
    Reading this, my sister sent me a message. According to her, Historically, inviting others to convert, from the wrong perspective, can look like an attempt to steal devouts. As refugees, in both India and Iran, they don't want to "push their luck". However, the political climate has softened and continues to soften, and Zorastrians as I've said in other posts are very accepting of everything. You do not need to believe me, I only have empirical evidence, no facts or links for you. However, frankly, from a culture perspective, we have to be accepting. We owe our survival to the acceptance others gave us.